Makarov 654k magazine

[schony]

Shooting my Makarov, every now and then a ball would become stuck in the barrel. A slight gentle push with a cleaning rod from the muzzle shifts it with no problem. Examination of the ball shows it to be damaged which is the cause of the jam. Investigating to try and diagnose the cause of this has led me to the conclusion that the cause is this. As the ball is in the magazine ready to be fired,it is not in alignment with the exit hole in the magazine and is presented too high and the uppermost part of the ball is being shielded inside the magazine. This means the ball has to over come the spring tension of the magazine and in effect roll itself out of the magazine before it enters the barrel. Any one had or seen this problem before? If so what did you do to correct it? I feel that a small drop of araldite or similar inside the top of the magazine to make the ball align with the hole may be a solution. Photo attached.

http://s483.photobucket.com/albums/r...=1226844244096

[Phil Russell]

When I had a Makarov I found the same thing ... the last one or two lead bals would effectively jam.
If you get one of the jammed balls and inspect it, you will see a 'flat with a slight depression' on it ... I concluded this was caused by the balls beneath the damaged one bouncing on it as part of the rebound effect of the gas. The gas would fire the ball in the breech but also exert some force on the balls remaining in the magazine.
I found that all but the last 2 or so balls fired OK from a full magazine. Generally, only loading 10 balls meant that all would fire Ok. I got over the issue by loading one or two steel BBs into the magazine first. Remembering to 'stop' and not shoot the steel balls was no real problem. I tried to find copper coated lead balls but failed. I thought they might solve the problem as they had a harder coating and may not have deformed.
Cheers, Phil

[schony]

Thanks Phil, that is a very good point. I noticed the deformity of the balls but didnt look any further but of course, as you say it would seem to be the rebound effect. Thanks phil you have been a great help
Alan

[chip]

Was shooting my Mac today, loaded 10 gamo lead balls and shot it 4 times.
I then took out the magazine to check the condition of the remaining lead balls.

All of them were damaged with multiple flat spots on the surface and the last one with a huge crater in it which must be caused by rebounding.

I had a couple of jams and now i have one badly deformed lead ball stuck in the magazine. it just about moves up and down the mag but wont go right to the top, so i can't get it out

I will try the method of loading 2 steel balls first, and if this doesnt work
i am just going to buy copperheads.

[schony]

Defo a problem then with deforming balls. If you load a couple of steel bb first I dont really see how that will help. You say you fired 4 out of 10 but the remaining 6 were damaged? What is it that actually causes the rebound effect?
Do we know for definite? Would a weaker mag spring help or make matters worse? One of the unsolved mysteries of the world.
Alan

[Firestorm]

I cut 20mm off the length of the spring, and only put 7 or 8 steel bb's in at a time.

see these'

http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s...999/654k_2.jpg
http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s...999/654k_3.jpg
http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s...999/654k_4.jpg

This mod helps to load the bb's easier, just drill a clearance hole where you want the number of bb's to be in the mag.

Wouldn't bother with lead bb's, looking at all the discussions about this in the past, the steels are not a problem for the barrel, and they don't deform either.

Russ

[schony]

I see what you mean. However if one is to use steel balls, would you need to shorten the spring and reduce the number of shots as the steels wont deform any way? Are you sure the steel balls wont harm the barrel and do you lose any mv?
Just asking
Alan

[Firestorm]

The spring shortening is more to avoid jams than deformation, as it pushes the bb's more gently.

The steel bb's won't do any harm to the barrel. Someone on here commented how they have shoved 1000's of steel bb's thro' them with no problems.

[chip]

The rebounding is caused by the blast of c02 on firing, as their is nothing stopping it from traveling down the magazine aswell.

With regards to the copper coated steel balls, i will get some and see how thick the copper coating is. If it is thick enough, so their is no chance of the rifling coming into contact with the steel underneath then they will be fine, as the copper is much softer than the steel barrel.

[Phil Russell]

Regarding steel BBs... I thought the Mak was actually sold as a BB gun and that using lead BB shot was just a bonus.

Not sure if copper coated steel BBs are any different to no copper coated.
My comment above was to get some copper coated lead BBs ... I am sure they are made but could not find any in the UK.
I tried various spring combinations ... I did not cut the original spring but made some springs of my own (weaker and stronger), but none prevented deformation of the last few lead balls from a full mag.
But keep experimenting ... you may hit a solution.
Cheers, Phil

[chip]

Copper is a lot softer than steel, so i would much prefer to use copper coated than just steel.

And at £3.95 for 1500 ,bonus.
http://www.airgunbuyer.com/Showprodu...SubCat=Pellets