What IS the cut-off point for antiques?

[Jim McArthur]

If I recall correctly - and this is just off the top of my head - under US FEDERAL law (and I stress federal: states and localities can and do vary tremendously), cartridge guns made before 1898 are automatically antiques, and unregulated, regardless of caiber.

There are also guns of later manufacture that are in calibers designated obsolete, that are not regulated (though I think you might need a "curios and relics" collector's license to be able to circumvent normal federal regs on purchasing them: but I'm not sure abut that).

What are the corresponding UK regs?

Jim

[ogilkes]

I think its 100 years old, though for air weapons its pre 1939

[Simon G]

I think its 100 years old, though for air weapons its pre 1939

It matters greatly on the calibre. If the calibre is not on the "obsolete list", then regardless of age, it's subject to legislation.

[Jim McArthur]

It matters greatly on the calibre. If the calibre is not on the "obsolete list", then regardless of age, it's subject to legislation.

Ah! So caliber's the distinguishing point, not age.

Jim

[ogilkes]

I'm sure there is a provsion for guns over a certain age not requiring certificaation as long as they are 'curios' and not used, perhaps calibre comes into it too. Certainly for air weapons its still legal to buy direct from dealers by post for pre 39 items.

[greasemonkey]

here in the UK we have a list drawn up by the goverment[home office] which states all the calibres that are considered obsolete .guns chambered in these calbres are classed as section 58d in UK firearms law and allowed to be possesed as"antiques or curios"without licence .firing or possesing live ammunition for these guns is illegal. its a good idea if you collect this type of weapon particularly centrefire revolvers to aquire dummy rounds in non obsolete calibres ie.455,.32 etc and try them in the gun before puchase as i have come across several revolvers that have had the chambers reamed out in the past to accept a more readily available round which makes them section5[a prohibited weapon] which could earn you a holiday without a suntan; .;..greasemonkey

[Chris St. MH]

There is no stipulation of over 100 years age anywhere in the firearms acts. The stipulation is pre 1939 (or pre WW2).

Part I: Old weapons which should
benefit from exemption as antiques
under section 58 (2) of the Firearms
Act 1968

8.5 Pre-1939 weapons to benefit from
exemption as antiques are as follows:
a) All muzzle-loading firearms;
b) Breech-loading firearms capable of
discharging a rimfire cartridge other than
4mm, 5mm, .22 inch or .23 inch (or their
metric equivalents), 6mm or 9mm rimfire;
c) Breech-loading firearms using ignition
systems other than rimfire and centrefire
(These include pin-fire and needle-fire
ignition systems, as well as the more
obscure lip fire, cup-primed, teat fire
and base fire systems);
d) Breech-loading centrefire arms originally
chambered for one of the obsolete
cartridges listed in Appendix 5 and which
retain their original chambering;
e) Shot guns and punt guns chambered for
the following cartridges (expressed in
imperial measurements): 32 bore, 24 bore,
14 bore, 10 bore (25/8 and 27/8 inch only),
8 bore, 4 bore, 3 bore, 2 bore, 11/8 bore,
11/4 bore and 11/2 bore, and vintage punt
guns and shot guns with bores greater than
10. It also includes vintage (pre-1939) rifles
in these bores.

Note (i) – The exemption does not apply
to ammunition, and the possession of live
ammunition suitable for use with an
otherwise antique firearm may indicate that
the firearm is not possessed as a curio or
ornament.

Note (ii) – The exemption does not apply
to firearms of modern manufacture which
otherwise conform to the description above.
For these purposes, “modern manufacture”
should be taken to mean manufacture after
the outbreak of the Second World War in
1939. Fully working modern firing replicas of
muzzle-loading and breech-loading firearms,
for example those used to fire blanks by
historical re-enactment societies but capable
of firing live ammunition, must be held on
certificate. This includes replica pieces of
ordnance that are to be fired; some replicas
have been produced with a true bore size of
just under 2 inches, thus enabling possession
and use on a shot gun certificate, but with
significant counter-boring at the muzzle to
preserve the necessary appearance of external
visual authenticity.

http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publ...s-Guidance.pdf

[rayman]

There is no stipulation of over 100 years age anywhere in the firearms acts. The stipulation is pre 1939 (or pre WW2).

Part I: Old weapons which should
benefit from exemption as antiques
under section 58 (2) of the Firearms
Act 1968

8.5 Pre-1939 weapons to benefit from
exemption as antiques are as follows:
a) All muzzle-loading firearms;
b) Breech-loading firearms capable of
discharging a rimfire cartridge other than
4mm, 5mm, .22 inch or .23 inch (or their
metric equivalents), 6mm or 9mm rimfire;
c) Breech-loading firearms using ignition
systems other than rimfire and centrefire
(These include pin-fire and needle-fire
ignition systems, as well as the more
obscure lip fire, cup-primed, teat fire
and base fire systems);
d) Breech-loading centrefire arms originally
chambered for one of the obsolete
cartridges listed in Appendix 5 and which
retain their original chambering;
e) Shot guns and punt guns chambered for
the following cartridges (expressed in
imperial measurements): 32 bore, 24 bore,
14 bore, 10 bore (25/8 and 27/8 inch only),
8 bore, 4 bore, 3 bore, 2 bore, 11/8 bore,
11/4 bore and 11/2 bore, and vintage punt
guns and shot guns with bores greater than
10. It also includes vintage (pre-1939) rifles
in these bores.

Note (i) – The exemption does not apply
to ammunition, and the possession of live
ammunition suitable for use with an
otherwise antique firearm may indicate that
the firearm is not possessed as a curio or
ornament.

Note (ii) – The exemption does not apply
to firearms of modern manufacture which
otherwise conform to the description above.
For these purposes, “modern manufacture”
should be taken to mean manufacture after
the outbreak of the Second World War in
1939. Fully working modern firing replicas of
muzzle-loading and breech-loading firearms,
for example those used to fire blanks by
historical re-enactment societies but capable
of firing live ammunition, must be held on
certificate. This includes replica pieces of
ordnance that are to be fired; some replicas
have been produced with a true bore size of
just under 2 inches, thus enabling possession
and use on a shot gun certificate, but with
significant counter-boring at the muzzle to
preserve the necessary appearance of external
visual authenticity.

http://police.homeoffice.gov.uk/publ...s-Guidance.pdf

Have been over this with the Police since the early 80's as a Firearms dealer, to comply with the act sec 58.2 the weapon must be obsolete calibre & over 100 years old, to be kept as a curio & not fired, If I had a Colt DA in .44 Rus dated or made 1910 for instance I could not keep it without sec 5 if I wanted it as a curio or sec 7 if I wanted to fire it. The law states over 100 years old & it rolls on every year, so when the act came out in 1968 that would make a 1939 weapon an antique at the ripe old age of 29 I do not see it. Check with your FEO of FLO. There are 100's of obsolete calibres produced in the States up until 1939, if that were the case I would be buying them with out the need for sec 7 import licence.
Cheers Glynn.

[Don Gott]

The law states over 100 years old & it rolls on every year, so when the act came out in 1968 that would make a 1939 weapon an antique at the ripe old age of 29 I do not see it. Cheers Glynn.

There is nothing in any law, anywhere, that specifies 100 years. A potentially dangerous misunderstanding for somebody in the business of dealing in antique firearms !

Take qualified legal advice, not police advice. It costs, but it's chaper than going to prison.

[loach369]

Have been over this with the Police since the early 80's as a Firearms dealer, 1. to comply with the act sec 58.2 the weapon must be obsolete calibre & over 100 years old, to be kept as a curio & not fired, 2.If I had a Colt DA in .44 Rus dated or made 1910 for instance I could not keep it without sec 5 if I wanted it as a curio or sec 7 if I wanted to fire it. 3.The law states over 100 years old & it rolls on every year, so when the act came out in 1968 that would make a 1939 weapon an antique at the ripe old age of 29 I do not see it. Check with your FEO of FLO. There are 100's of obsolete calibres produced in the States up until 1939, if that were the case I would be buying them with out the need for sec 7 import licence.
Cheers Glynn.

1. Not true.

2. Rubbish.

3. Bull$hit . Please cut and paste the Legislation to back up your claim.

If there is one thing that gets my back up on the BBS it's people posting misinformation in relation to Firearms Legislation.