Antique airguns VCR Act

[Mike95]

I am still not totally sure of the position for the transfer of pre 1939 airguns. The BASC site indicates that there is no restriction on transfer and that an RFD does not need to be involved. RFD's I have spoken to, still insist on an RFD transfer. Any experts on this point please?

Mike95

[coburn]

Check out Protek Supplies website they deal in both pre and post war airguns and make it clear that pre war can be posted by themselves and are free of RFD to RFD restrictions.

[edbear2]

As per last post......pre 39 classed as curios and collectables........search for VCR on line...it lists all the well known guns..ie; webley service, bsa prewars etc..no problem whatsover.......althought it is zanu's normal cobblers.......ie. 11 pound energy model D....O.K......new gat gun.......banned

curvy swords.....nasty.straight swords...safe

wont go on as losing the will to live even thinking about it

Below is copy and pasted direct from the home office website;

Annex A

SCHEDULE OF MASS-PRODUCED ANTIQUE AIR WEAPONS WHOSE PRODUCTION PERIOD PRE-DATES 1939

Air weapons from the 17th - 19th century are readily identifiable and tend to be of the pre-charged pneumatic type with detachable reservoirs. They fall into two main types: those which resemble conventional firearms and those which are modelled on walking sticks. Bellows and compressed spring mechanisms are also encountered.

The beginning of the 20th century saw the introduction of mass-produced air weapons. Below are lists of air weapons which were mass-produced before 1939.

Air rifles & air guns

Bonehill Britannia

Britannia "Anglo Sureshot Mk 1"

Improved Britannia

BSA L Model

BSA H Model

BSA Lincoln Model

BSA Improved Model B

BSA Improved Model D

BSA Military Pattern

BSA "A" Series

BSA Standard Model (T Prefix and Club Specials)

BSA "Break Action"

Crank operated gallery rifles/guns (all types).

Daisy M 1901

Daisy B-1000

Daisy Model C

Daisy Model H

Daisy Number 12

Daisy Model 29

Daisy Model 40

Diana Model 16

Diana Model 20

Diana Model 25

Diana "Break Action"

Diana Model 48

"Gem" all types

Giffard compressed CO2 all types.

Greener "Break Action"

Haenel Model I D R P

Haenel Model II

Haenel Model III

Haenel Model IV

Haenel Model VIII

Haenel Model X, XV and XX

Haenel Model 45

Hot Shot

Lane's Musketeer

Langenhahn "Favorit 1"

Langenhahn "Millita" Models

Markham (all models)

Marco

Midland Gun Co Demon "Break Action"

Midland Gun Co "Perfecta"

Pfeil (all models)

Precision air rifle (Oscar Will)

Quackenbush (all models)

Remington Model 26

Roland Model 1927 (marketed under various names)

Speedy air rifle

Tell air rifles (Oscar Will)

Webley Mark 1

Webley Mark 2 Service air rifle


Air pistols

Accles & Shelvoke "Warrior"

Anson "Firefly"

Bedford and Walker "Eureka"

Britannia

Daisy "Targeteer" (fixed rear sight = pre 1940)

Diana Model 1

EmGe "Zenit"

Haenel 26

Haenel 28

Haenel 28 Repeater

Hubertus (as sold by Midland Gun Co)

Iver Johnson "Champion"

Lincoln Jefferies "The Lincoln"

Pope Bros "Rifle"

Quackenbush

Siptonon

Snow & Cowe "Kalamazoo"

Tell II

Tell III

Titan (Frank Clarke, Birmingham?)

Westley Richards "Highest Possible"

Webley Mark 1 (straight butt with wooden grips)

Webley Mark 1 (raked butt with plastic grips, No knurled section on barrel)

Webley "Junior" (wooden or pressed steel grips; post war have rounded butt)

Webley Mark II Target

Webley "Senior "(Straight butt wooden grips)

Webley "Senior" (Slant butt plastic grips. Highest known serial no17578)

1) This list is not definitive and further work is being done to isolate defining features for pre 1939 Webley air pistols.

2) There is a significant class of air pistols with push-in spring loaded barrels which are generically referred to as "Gat" or "Gat type". Those which predate 1939 are as follows.

Briton, Briton De-Luxe and Super Briton

Dolla

Dolla (William Tell)

Diana Model 2

Limit

Those post-dating 1939 are:-

The Gat made by T J Harrington of Walton Surrey

Original Model 2







This Document has been published from Lotus Notes

[Garvin]

A google search came up with Home Office circular Circular DPRD-77FLCT

Reference No: DPRD-77FLCT
Status: Published
Circular Number 031 / 2007
This circular is about The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (Commencement No 3) Order 2007:Firearms Measures; and the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (Commencement No 4) Order 2007: Firearms Measures
From Crime Reduction and Community Safety Group (CRCSG) - Specialist Crime Directorate
Unit Specialist Crime 1
Creation Date 27/09/2007
Printing Date 28/09/2007
Distribution Date 28/09/2007
Date for Implementation 01/10/2007


7. Circular 12/2007 explained that it will not be necessary to register as a firearms dealer where sales or transfers involve only antique air weapons which are kept as curiosities or ornaments. The Home Office view was given that, for the purposes of section 31, any air weapon manufactured before 1939 should normally be regarded as an antique. Attached at Annex A to this circular is a note prepared by Bill Harriman on behalf of the Historic Firearms Reference Panel, which provides police forces with some guidance on the most common types of air weapon manufactured before 1939.

[Mike95]

I think the problem words are "curiosities and ornaments"...would this apply to a fully functioning BSA underlever? Clearly not an ornament in the usual sense of the word but probably a curiosity. Why choose such ridiculous words in order to make exceptions to the rules! There are certainly dealers out there who are as bemused as I am!

Mike95

[Garvin]

I think the problem words are "curiosities and ornaments"...would this apply to a fully functioning BSA underlever? Clearly not an ornament in the usual sense of the word but probably a curiosity. Why choose such ridiculous words in order to make exceptions to the rules! There are certainly dealers out there who are as bemused as I am!

Mike95

I don't see a problem Mike, it's a good thing and we're lucky to have the exception. It's the same with unlicensed old firearms which are in full working order but use obsolete ammo. Theoretically you could get them working but as long as they are kept by collectors and not fired there's no licensing issues.

The pre-1939 rule is just a way that airgun collectors can go about their business without being lumped in with modern PCPs etc. It's not a perfect dividing line but let's face it, it's more likely juvenile offenders will be found shooting at swans with a Chinese B2 than with a BSA Improved Mod D.

Most prewar guns look a bit less like "deadly firearms" to the uninformed general public than modern ones too.

[slug-gun]

The situation, although at first sight confusing, is actually quite straightforward, albeit the law is perversely framed.
If you are a private individual you can sell an airgun of any age without hindrance as you always used to. (Sub 12 ft lbs of course.)
However if you are involved in the sale of an airgun 'in the course of a trade or business' then you can only sell a Post-1939 air rifle on a face to face basis. ie No mail order.
Pre 1939 air guns are classed as 'historic' and are exempt from this restriction. However this is where dealers sometimes get confused because they do not always know the age of a gun.
A 1930's Webley Senior for example is very similar to the post war version. Also Harriman's list appears to have been drawn largely from Dennis Hiller's book and is therefore very incomplete, so as a guide as to what is 'legal' and what is not it is only of limited use.
One only has to look at John Griffith's new air pistol book to see what there is out there, not included in the Home Office circular.
The great irony with the legislation of course is that the most bone fide part of the trade in air guns, ie the dealers, are restricted as to what they can do, whilst 'Joe Public', who could be anybody, can still so what he (or she) likes!

[Lakey]

I think the problem here is that the wording of the exception means that if you deal in pre-1939 guns you do not have to register as an RFD in the eyes of the law. however, since as most suppliers of pre-1939 guns also supply post-1939 guns, I guess it is easier just to send them all down the same route, in other words always send to an RFD whether the guns are pre-1939 or post-1939. That way you avoid all 'grey areas' and then dont have to depend on exact aging of guns to be on the right side of that law.

I bet that is how most airgun suppliers would think........?

lakey