FWB300S and 10M questions

[Nikkormat]

I've just bought a FWB300S as an introduction to 10 metre shooting. So far I've put 50 pellets through it at six metres, and I love it. Despite having had air rifles most of my life, I'm a pretty appalling shot from the standing position, but I was impressed with my shooting today.

Questions...

The sights as they are seem great to me and I'll almost certainly stick with them, but I wondered about alternative sight elements. I've read the page on pilkguns. What are the benefits of different front elements, and where might I be able to buy them? The front element is marked "3.8".

The disc that you look through on the rear sight is inscribed "1.1". What does this mean? Again, what alternatives are available and what are the benefits of different ones?

How should I be standing when taking a shot? I'm trying to get used to the elbow-on-hip stance, but I'd like to know if I'm doing it properly. Is there a basic book or on-line guide to 10M shooting, which would give details of correct posture? Joining a club and getting basic instruction would of course be best, but it's not an option at the moment (no car and no clubs nearby, but that will be changing soon).

Edit to add: Is there anything else I ought to buy, as a beginner? I thought maybe a shooting glove would make things a bit more comfortable.

Thanks in advance,

Matt

[Topi]

great to me and I'll almost certainly stick with them, but I wondered about alternative sight elements. I've read the page on pilkguns. What are the benefits of different front elements, and where might I be able to buy them? The front element is marked "3.8".

Hi Matt,

I'm fairly sure the number means the inner diameter of the sight insert in mm, i.e. you'd have an insert with a diameter of 3.8 mm.

I'm not aware of a rule of thumb for selecting the correct size. Basically you just try different sizes until you find one that gives you the best results.

The disc that you look through on the rear sight is inscribed "1.1". What does this mean? Again, what alternatives are available and what are the benefits of different ones?

I think the number is again the diameter of the aperture. Given your nick I think you'll know what happens to the depth of field when you change aperture sizes.

Other than that it also seems to be a case of what you are comfortable with.

I once had a Walther LGM-1 with adjustable sigths front and rear and could not make much of a difference between the rear sight sizes. Front was quite a different case, though.

Cheers,

-Topi

[RobF]

Good start with the 300

Ok, to run through.

Foresight.

The 3.8 is actually in mm... you can change the size of the sight depending on your preference. I use a 4.1mm. All it does is change the amount of white around the black circular target. However, there is a tendency for new shooters to go too tight, which can cause problems in that the eye loses the white in the blur, or just cant detect the white ring as well as it could with a larger aperture foresight. So it's personal preference really, but if you can, once you are comforable, try some different sized elements.

I had an adjustable one, but have now settled on a 4.1... i'm waiting to try a 4.2.

Rearsight.

You can get adjustable iris sights. It sounds like you have the type where you replace the aperture. 1.1 again refers to the size of the hole in mm. 1.1 isn't a bad place to start.
If you go with a larger rearsight aperture, it brightens the view, but the downside is that you shallow the depth of field. Ie, less of the view is in focus, so if you look at your foresight predominately, the target will be more blurred... which might again require a larger foresight to accommodate that extra width of blur so you perceive the white ring around the black target better.
If you go with a smaller rearsight aperture, it deepens the depth of field, which brings the target more into focus against the foresight. However, the picture gets darker, and apart from causing your eyes to tire faster, it can also reduce the white ring to a grey, and mean it's more difficult to pick out the white ring around the target again.

The need for a certain size of aperture can vary with the brightness of light on the target. With an adjustable iris, you can adapt to changes of light, and your eyes. A rule of thumb is to open it as large as you like, and stop it down (ie close it) until you just see the picture getting darker. Experience will then come into play as to if you move away from that. I have mine set to 1.1, but might nudge it towards 1.0 or 1.2 depending on how I feel.

Book

Ways of the rifle. From beginner to olympic standard. Read and digest in small bite size chunks or wade through and be mesmerised. Each paragraph has a gem in it, and I can't think of a better book. Although it covers 3 position, a lot covers standing shooting.... indeed it states that for 3p shooters they spend 70-80% of their time on standing. There is a more dedicated book called Air rifle by the same team, but I prefer the Ways as in my opinion Air Rifle is more of a refinement publication.

Dont be daunted by the depth of detail and knowledge in the book, just take it in chunks you are comfortable with.

Its about £40, but it falls into my recommendation as one of the cheapest improvements and value for money for your shooting you can buy...
It will explain everything you need to know, and more... I still refer to mine years after buying it, and years after joining a club.

As far as shooting, the 4 principles apply... find your support, optimise you natural point of aim with that support, watch the trigger and aiming with good follow through.

Try and pay attention to what works, experiment, and try and remember what felt good, or performed well. Don't be afraid to experiment.

Essentially, a straight line through the ankles to the target is a good place to start. Your hips should do the same. Might feel wierd, but work with it. Front hand position is up to you. Relax shoulder, don't feel too tense or grip too hard. Your looking for a position that uses as little effort and as much bone as possible. If you relax, close your eyes and feel the gun move in a constant direction, try altering the position so it settles better and stops moving so much. Let the gun do the work, let it's weight work with you, just provide the support for it.

At the start of 10m, there's a lot to learn. Because your only doing one thing, there is a tendency to examine it in detail. Standing is the most difficult of disciplines, but I reckon it probably teaches you more about the process of shooting more than anything else.

You'll probably feel that you can't do any of the process very well, which is normal. Persevere. The wide roaming wanderings of your stance will reduce with time, you'll start to gain a feel for what works, what doesn't, what you can practice, and what you feel you want help with. Try and forget scores to start with, start thinking about consistency and control. Then the scores will come.

Have fun, and don't try and rush it. No-one is any good at standing, it's just that some have found ways to be better at it than others.

[RobF]

Edit to add: Is there anything else I ought to buy, as a beginner? I thought maybe a shooting glove would make things a bit more comfortable.

Thanks in advance,

Matt

Yep, can help. I still debate whether to use mine or not. And it helps to have a choice, as fit and feel can change between them. Try a ski glove or bike glove and see how you feel.

With kit, it's best to progress with it with your perfomance. There's no doubt you can buy the best clothing and kit and get a better score. However, you might mask problems and might not get to the limit of it and your potential.

I have tended to wait until my score is what I want it to be, and it's leveled out, the buy something as a semi reward, and in the hope it gets me a few more points once i feel like something is becoming a pain. But I still work without any of it now and then to try and nail something specific down.

[Nikkormat]

Given your nick I think you'll know what happens to the depth of field when you change aperture sizes.

Ah of course. I never thought of that.

Thanks Rob, a lot of useful information there. I'll start saving up for Ways of the Rifle.

[Nikkormat]

I have tended to wait until my score is what I want it to be, and it's leveled out, the buy something as a semi reward, and in the hope it gets me a few more points once i feel like something is becoming a pain. But I still work without any of it now and then to try and nail something specific down.

That sounds like a good way to train. Thanks again.

[BigAl]

From personal experiance I think that 3.8mm on the front sight is about as small as you would want to go for prone shooting, with many prone shooters these days using sizes around 4.0mm. For a novice shooting standing I would strongly recomend starting with a minimum of 4.5mm. This ensures that the aming mark will stay inside the front sight ring. Although it appers to move about much more you will get better scores with the bigger ring than you will ever get with the smaller one. Personally I would recommend the plastic elements over metal ones, they are avilable from the NSRA or several other retailers. I would also strongly recommend using a good shooting glove on the supporting hand, it will make it much more comfortable. A good shooting jacket that will help support your back is also to be recommended.

Al

[big_phil555]

As said above, try out around the 4.0mm front sight size for starters. I seem to recall that the FWB 300 series had a slightly different front size element on them (ear size). If you try the link below, I am sure they can accomodate you

http://www.edinkillie.co.uk/ecatalog/index.php

If you look there too, you can see some of the exotic stuff available. I am sure the good shooters can spot the difference, but fo rme, it is far above my ability

HTH

ATB

Phil

[Mike95]

I recommend the acrylic type front inserts (UK Neil does a good job) since you get a nice semi translucent "ring" which helps to centre around the target ring, without the "sudden" cut off that you get with the metal inserts. I shoot the FWB 300 Junior standing in comps(weighs a bit less than the 300S) and I use a 3.8mm at 10m. The gun is also fine at 25 yards with a 3.2 or 3.4mm. I think the Anschutz metal front inserts will fit the FWB sight. Size required does vary with individual eyes and the available light.

Mike95

[Nikkormat]

Cheers everyone. I'll give a bigger insert a try.

[Wadhill1]

I too shoot a 300s and all the advice you have been given is very good.My advice to you is never part withthe gun is becoming a bit of a rarity in the USA.Any way bugger the yanks, I have to say its the finest gun i have ever shot in 25 years of shooting ,I hope I never have to part with mine.
Give it a try at 25 metres you will surpise yourself once you have it sighted.
Enjoy the gun its a master piece.

[Nikkormat]

I've just bought a few plastic foresight elements from Bedford Target Supplies: 3.8, 4.0 and 4.2mm. I'm going to start with the 4.2.

A question regarding fitting: the element is stepped, that is, one side is larger in diameter than the other with a rim around the outside edge (I don't mean the hole in the middle). You can just about see this in the picture. Am I right in thinking that the engraved number and thus the larger side should face towards the rear?

As far as I know, I have the standard FWB300S foresight. Should I insert the element from the rear? I've done this, but as the element is thicker than the metal one I've been using, the bit that you screw in at the back of the sight protrudes a few mm. Is that correct?

Thanks everybody for the advice so far, I've still yet to join a club but I'm improving slowly! I've owned a fair few sporters before (TX200s, Pro-Sport, BSA Superstar, Goldstar etc) but this is my first target rifle and is by far the finest rifle I've ever used.

[Rutty]

Am I right in thinking that the engraved number and thus the larger side should face towards the rear?

That's correct so that the countersink is facing forward.

I shall just mention one option that hasn't cropped up yet, High End Foresight Elements. Once you have settled on a foresight size you may want to consider buying one of these. They are a bit pricey, but they are really good and give a good picture under all light conditions. An added advantage is that they come in a range of ring thicknesses and should you want a very thin ring or a thicker one than that provided by the plastic element the it is available.

Rutty

[jonyb]

if you are looking for clubs around the manchester area then look at the affiliated clubs which belong to the county of lancaster shooting association.
www.clstsa.org
the association can help you with all forms of 10m rifle shooting and any other dicipline.Regular club meets , training meets and competitions.
give it a go.

[RobF]

That's correct so that the countersink is facing forward.

I shall just mention one option that hasn't cropped up yet, High End Foresight Elements. Once you have settled on a foresight size you may want to consider buying one of these. They are a bit pricey, but they are really good and give a good picture under all light conditions. An added advantage is that they come in a range of ring thicknesses and should you want a very thin ring or a thicker one than that provided by the plastic element the it is available.

Rutty

I'd 2nd this... these are worth the money. But it's early days