FAC Question

[Cycleallday]

How pedantic are the police and more importantly dealers re the description of a firearm on an FAC.

For example can say I want a muzzle-loading pistol in order to choose between a single shot pistol or a revolver like a colt or do I have to say one or the other.

Like wise for a rifle do I have to be more detailed and state bolt action or semi automatic?

I am just filling my form in and want to get it right.

Mel

[Westcountry Tony]

rifles I just state the calibre and firearm type, ie .357/38 rifle or .22lr rifle

however my personal experiences with pistols and revolvers is that they put them on the FAC exactly how you ask, I have .44 muzzle loading revolver slot, and cant get a pistol with that.

working the other way, I have .22lr long barrel pistol slot, for a buckmark, but couldnt buy a taurus LBR as thats a revolver?? however the buckmark isnt single shot?? this is according to the RFD's that I have spoken with, I wouldnt argue as to be perfectly honest, if I was selling a firearm I wouldnt transfer unless the wording was exactly right either.

[wiggy1234567]

My ticket states ".44 Pistol" and that's it!! I have a Pietta revolver.

For the rim fires, it stated ".22RF rifle", and I have a semi, a bolt and an under-leaver.

I think it depends on your police force.

[fcat]

my fac states:

.36 muzzle loading pistol
.45 muzzle loading pistol
.22 rifle

During the home inspection, the officer was very clear that as far as the FAC was concerned "muzzle loading pistol" covered single shot and revolvers. The calibre was the important point. Similarly, ".22 rifle" covered single shot and semi-auto and there was no explicit restriction to rimfire - although I'm not aware of any .22 centrefire.

However, different licensing depts may have their own rules so best to talk to them.


Police & RFD's are pedantic about calibre, not the type of action. For example, a Ruger Old Army is marketed as .45 although it might be more properly be described as .44. An RFD won't supply you with an ROA against a .44 slot - it has to be .45. All rather silly in relation to BP pistols but there we are...

[Cycleallday]

Thanks for the responses, I think I will try with the most broad description to start with and see how I progress with the licensing officer.

[tacfoley]

Police & RFD's are pedantic about calibre, not the type of action. For example, a Ruger Old Army is marketed as .45 although it might be more properly be described as .44. An RFD won't supply you with an ROA against a .44 slot - it has to be .45. All rather silly in relation to BP pistols but there we are...

The manufacturers of the Ruger Old Army, Sturm, Ruger Inc. call[ed] it a .44.

I'm amazed that the 'interpreters' of the 'rules' can't acept the word of those who actually make the things....

Mine was bought as a .44 and is on my FAC as a .44. Mind you, that was quite a while back, so no doubt the bore has swollen meanwhile and become a .45....

tac

[steve medlock]

My ROA has a .44 calibre barrel also and has .44 stamped on the side and is on my ticket as a .44 so there is common sense out there.

However I will admit to requesting a 38/357 slot for a 357 calibre rifle some years back....

Steve.

[fcat]

and my ROA has .45 stamped on it, so .45 had to be on the ticket - but I bet the bore is the same as all the others!

I gather that when Ruger first sold the pistol (1970's ?), it was marketed as a .44, in line with the original Colt & Remmington Army's etc. However it didn't shoot as accurately as expected with the ball that people tended to use in a .44 which I think was .454 or smaller. For whatever reason, the ROA worked much better with a .457 ball. So to encourage people to use the larger ball, the pistol was re-marketed as a .45 but there was never any change to the actual calibre.

I think that's the story - others may know more than me.

[tim56]

Mines stamped as .45. When i applied for my variation i applied for .44/.45 muzzle loading pistol and i enclosed a letter explaining that Rugers are stamped .44 and .45 depending on age, but both fire a .457 ball. So are all infact a .45. The Local licencing officer came round and i discussed it with him pointing out that evan my Rogers and spencer is classed as .44 but actually fires a .451" ball, he agreed so i got permision to buy a .44/.45 muzzle loading pistol. Tim

[steve medlock]

Could I just please reiterate that its the calibre of the barrel that counts not the size of the ball that you might be able to squeeze through it. Clearly there is a range of sizes of ball that can be propelled down a .44 barrel none of which determine the calibre of the gun.

In the English convention, the calibre is the diameter of the barrel measured from land to land.

[tacfoley]

Could I just please reiterate that its the calibre of the barrel that counts not the size of the ball that you might be able to squeeze through it. Clearly there is a range of sizes of ball that can be propelled down a .44 barrel none of which determine the calibre of the gun.

In the English convention, the calibre is the diameter of the barrel measured from land to land.

Uh, YOU know that. I know that, and many posters HERE know that.

But how many in Plod Hall know that?

My .577 snider used to shoot a .590 bullet.

My .577 Musktetoon shoots a .58 diameter Minie bullet.

Both my 7mm Mausers shoot a 7.2mm diameter bullet.

Both my 7.5x55 Swiss shoot a .308 diameter bullet.

And most .303British are between .311 and .314....or so.

Go figure.

tac

[steve883]

In the English convention, the calibre is the diameter of the barrel measured from land to land.

Steve,

How then do we explain the differnce between .303 and .308?

.303 is measured as the smallest size through the barrel, ie a ball of .303 diameter will drop through the barrel, bullet diameter is .311/ .312

.308 is the maximum diameter through the barrel, ie bullet diameter

Steve

[steve medlock]

Steve,

I don't know much about .308 I'm afraid, but I think .308 is actually the bullet size (rather than the calibre) for 30 cal and 7.62 calibre rifles.

.303 (British) is a tad larger, hence the larger bullet size.

Steve.

[harricook]

Uh, YOU know that. I know that, and many posters HERE know that.

But how many in Plod Hall know that?

My .577 snider used to shoot a .590 bullet.

My .577 Musktetoon shoots a .58 diameter Minie bullet.

Both my 7mm Mausers shoot a 7.2mm diameter bullet.

Both my 7.5x55 Swiss shoot a .308 diameter bullet.

And most .303British are between .311 and .314....or so.

Go figure.

tac

Hi TAC

Just been given 2 boxes of .583 cal 400gn Hollow Base Minies made by Haendler & Natermann

I would describe then as 'semi-wadcutter' in shape

Any ideas from your worryingly vast encyclopaedic knowledge what they might be for squirting out of.

I have to admit to giving them a try in my Parker Hale 3 band Enfield - but they are bleddy tight !!!!

They will probably end up in the lead pot (sadly) !

All the best

Roy