beginners guide to bp part two... calibre??

[jax13]

looking at a few dealers prices on second hand pistols to try and determine a budget for myself and i noticed something that should have been more obvious to me at the time.

calibre.

stupidly, i didn't think there would be quite as many calibres!

for occasional use (once every couple of weeks) shooting informally at 25yds indoors what realistically do i need?

am i right in thinking there will be a trend with running costs being higher for bigger calibres? for example, are the running costs of a .31 a lot lower than a .44 due to less powder & lead and how much per shot would each work out to (as a rough guide)

what benefits / drawbacks are there with each specific calibre?

what would be a good calibre to start with & what pistols should i look at as a beginner?

[Scimmy]

Is the .44 the most popular calibre, widest range to choose from?
Forget the costs per shot by the time you've bought all the bits and bobs to run and clean them let alone the ammuniton and club/ range fees its cheaper to roll pound coins down a drain!

[jax13]

club membership and range fee's would be paid regardless for rifle use! i am hoping i can set myself up for about £200 all in as looking at prices on second hand pistols i think its a reasonable budget to work to.

as for price per shot, it was merely curiosity rather than a deciding factor! hell, it can't work out much more than shooting 250 clays every month can it!

[lilguy43uk]

There's not much difference in the cost of buying powder, wads and shot for .36 and .44.

Don't forget the wads or grease for over the balls though as I believe we had a chain fire incident at the club the other week. No-one injured but a gun destroyed and a bad case of the runs.

[tim56]

As above. Dont worry about the running costs where pistols are concearned.
Most people i know shoot .44/.45 as apposed to anything else, theres more choice of guns in the larger calibers and if you have to rely on buying your balls they seem to be more available. Best to try as many guns as you can, make your decision as to what you want then look at whats available in that model. Hold a .44/.45 ball in one hand and a .31/.36 in the other then decide Anyway at my age i need the bigger hole in the target to see where the balls gone!
Have fun. Tim

[Smokeless Coal]

44=more bang, more smoke=bigger grin.

Go for one with a top strap like a ROA remmington or Rogers for target shooting, rater than the colt with its open frame and sighting through a groove in the hammer.

[lilguy43uk]

My apologies if I seem to have moved the thread off topic.

Don't be put of by the subject though, careful reloading procedures minimise any dangers.

In that respect it's not different than loading for metallic cartridges. The watchwords have to be car, attention to detail and consistency in your procedures.

Jim

[jax13]

My apologies if I seem to have moved the thread off topic.

Don't be put of by the subject though, careful reloading procedures minimise any dangers.

In that respect it's not different than loading for metallic cartridges. The watchwords have to be car, attention to detail and consistency in your procedures.

Jim

don't worry about it jim - it makes for good reading (even if i don't completely understand all of it yet!)

i did quite like the remmy and i think it was stainless @ £150 second hand - does that seem like a good price?? it was in mint condition as far as i could tell (but i don't know exactly what to look for re: wear and tear or potential mistreatment... yet)

just out of curiosity - what do you use for a 'load' in the remington?

the revolver i shot at the club (which i'm sure was a ruger) was powder, filler, ball - cap on the back and shoot. no wad, no E45 cream. are these essential or is it purely a personal preference?

[tacfoley]

don't worry about it jim - it makes for good reading (even if i don't completely understand all of it yet!)

i did quite like the remmy and i think it was stainless @ £150 second hand - does that seem like a good price?? it was in mint condition as far as i could tell (but i don't know exactly what to look for re: wear and tear or potential mistreatment... yet)

just out of curiosity - what do you use for a 'load' in the remington?

the revolver i shot at the club (which i'm sure was a ruger) was powder, filler, ball - cap on the back and shoot. no wad, no E45 cream. are these essential or is it purely a personal preference?

There are as many answers as questions. I happen to LIKE the fact that E45 washes away and takes all the crud with it - as it is not a grease or even oil-based it simply thins out and disappears in hot water. I can't be farting about with filler from another container - powder, ball, finger wipe of E45, caps on with the in-line capper and off you go.

We all do what we want.

The 'old folks' never bothered with grease or filler either, unless they were going to leave the gun overnight, then they used tallow and bees wax mix.

Or not.

tac

[jax13]

cheers tac - and just to answer another similar question, are the lubricated wads doing the same (or similar job) as the E45?

i actually like the idea of using e45 as i know that for me, the cleaning will be the bit that puts me off or it would be left for tomorrow and i'd end up knackering the gun!



so my interpretation is (and please correct me if i'm wrong)

• that people use slightly oversized balls to get a perfect fit hence shaving off the little ring of lead on the way
• powder is essential (obviously) and the choice to go for pyrodex over BP is personal preference rather than a limitation on the guns part (with pyrodex being fine on FAC but BP needs an extra explosives license)
• the use of a filler is not essential and is again, a personal preference thing
• E45 helps stop the powder residue etc. from sticking on and makes the cleaning process a lot less labour intensive
• there are no right or wrong answers in the world of black powder!

if all the above is true...... then i could be on my way to bp shooting with a pistol, balls, pyrodex, powder flask & a trip to boots?

[tacfoley]

cheers tac - and just to answer another similar question, are the lubricated wads doing the same (or similar job) as the E45?

Sort of. Unless you have access to 1/8" felt and a suitably sized wad-cutter to make your own they are also pretty expensive, too. Wonder-Wads is the name to look out for. Maybe there is a equivalent, but I've never seen them. Up to you, if money is no object.

i actually like the idea of using e45 as i know that for me, the cleaning will be the bit that puts me off or it would be left for tomorrow and i'd end up knackering the gun!

If you are going the Pyrodex route then cleaning the very same day is an absolute must - same with 777 and 'Cleanshot'.

so my interpretation is (and please correct me if i'm wrong)
[*]that people use slightly oversized balls to get a perfect fit hence shaving off the little ring of lead on the way.

Most BP revolvers of .44cal shoot a ball of at least .451 diameter. Some, like the ROA, shoot a larger ball of .457" diameter - this is why over here the arm seems to have gotten the nomenclature of .45"cal.
[*]powder is essential (obviously) and the choice to go for pyrodex over BP is personal preference rather than a limitation on the guns part (with pyrodex being fine on FAC but BP needs an extra explosives license)

MY choice is Pyrodex for a number of reasons -

a. It's all I can get - this is a pretty good reason to me.

b. BP is a real hassle AFAIAC - my home insurance company does not like it in the house.

c. I've been shooting Pyrodex P it since it came out, and its funny little ways are well under control [it likes v. hot caps].
[*]the use of a filler is not essential and is again, a personal preference thing

If you load less than capacity loads, say 18-20gr in a .44, then you are going to need a filler to get the ball in the best place - just below the rim of the chamber. I use 24gr of Pyrodex P in my ROA, and this is just about flush with the end of the chamber leaving room for a 'wipe over' of E45 - MY preferred lube. I've never met anybody else here in UK who uses it, but over in Germany, where I began my BP career in the mid-60's, they mostly use the German version of the same thing in handguns. I would point out that the German BP shooting scene has over 1 million participants....
[*]E45 helps stop the powder residue etc. from sticking on and makes the cleaning process a lot less labour intensive.

IMO. yes.
[*]there are no right or wrong answers in the world of black powder!

Correct. Apart from the obvious use of correct loading procedures and safe handling - and there IS a dedicated BP RCO course if you want to take it - so much of BP shooting is down to myth and legend, hearsay and gossip, trial and error as well as hit and miss...

if all the above is true...... then i could be on my way to bp shooting with a pistol, balls, pyrodex, powder flask & a trip to boots?[/QUOTE]

Ahem. You'll be needing caps somewhere in there, too, unless you intend to stand there and go 'Bang' very loudly. And it's Pyrodex P you'll be needing for BP revolver, as well.

Luck, eh?

tac

[lilguy43uk]

i did quite like the remmy and i think it was stainless @ £150 second hand - does that seem like a good price?? it was in mint condition as far as i could tell (but i don't know exactly what to look for re: wear and tear or potential mistreatment... yet)

just out of curiosity - what do you use for a 'load' in the remington?

Jax

I use 21gn FFFg in my stainless Remmy. It gives a satisfying thump and good accuracy without excessive recoil. The Pietta manual however, says 12 - 15gn FFFg for the .44 and 9 - 12 gn FFFg for the .36 but most of the BP forums that I've been on seem to think that this is a quite light. What do you think Tac?

You can buy semi greased felt wads which takes all the bother of sourcing felt, buying wad cutters and ruining the dining room table curring wads.

[tacfoley]

I use 21gn FFFg in my stainless Remmy. It gives a satisfying thump and good accuracy without excessive recoil. The Pietta manual however, says 12 - 15gn FFFg for the .44 and 9 - 12 gn FFFg for the .36 but most of the BP forums that I've been on seem to think that this is a quite light. What do you think Tac?

European manufacturers are notoriously coy about loads, for the simple reason that they think they might get sued. Most Pietta shooters in the club to which I belong shoot between 20 and 30gr of FFFg in their .44s. Please feel free to shoot what you consider to be a safe load. Many makers, as well as the UK Proof houses, actually mark the gun with a safe load - this is NOT the proof load!

JFI - the Dixie Gun Works reference material, all of the Numrich Books, all the Black Powder Digests as well as the Pyrodex manual all have the same figures of around 24gr of FFg or 80% of that load for Pyrodex P in a modern manufacturer's .44cal revolver in good condition.

You can buy semi greased felt wads which takes all the bother of sourcing felt, buying wad cutters and ruining the dining room table curring wads.

Fine, but I know many who make their own wads. Me, I don't use 'em.

tac