Reply With QuoteI'll be dogged! It worked!
Jim
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
An interesting article about the effectiveness of old black powder percussion and early cartridge revolvers:
http://www.nrvoutdoors.com/BP%20REVOLVER/BP.htm
Jim
P.S. If it doesn't pop up, let me know.
Last edited by Jim McArthur; 08-05-2009 at 12:17 PM.
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
I'll be dogged! It worked!
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Banned
A very interesting and informative look at the comparison between a good BP load and modern ammunition.
So much for some wag opining that modern handguns are FAAAAAR more effective than the old stuff. He seemed to have overlooked that BP has been in use at least eight times longer than smokeless....
tac
Registered User
Ed Sanow and Evan Marshall in their series of studies and publications concerning the effectiveness of modern handgun cartridges in the police/military/defence role, also did a "comparison" on B/P revolvers of the 1860's.
The results showed that indeed, front stuffing, charcoal burners were and are, very effective arms!
(Purely in the interests of academic study......)
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
I always find it ironic that when weapons technology moves on to a next step, people tend to discount the lethality and effectiveness of the older system.
You actually hear people ask questions like, "You mean that your could really KILL a person with one of those old guns?"
Have they read any history, I wonder?
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Nfn rng w txt spk
It certainly was that. I'd long suspected that the UK habit of shooting round ball didn't exploit the capabilities of the guns or the energy availability from the powder. Publishing the actual values achieved isn't something often seen.Originally Posted by tacfoley
I wouldn't myself ever have shot .45 Long Colt in a WG. I've seen too many scary exhibits in the window at Fulton's years ago to want to shoot anything outside the standard design envelope in a Webley .455. There are probably more than a few of England's foes who could testify to the effectiveness of the standard round, too - were there to be a spirit world whence such testimony might be communicated...
Regards,
MikB
...history... is, indeed, little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind. (Edward Gibbon: Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire)
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Mik, what is "WG", and "Fulton's"?It certainly was that. I'd long suspected that the UK habit of shooting round ball didn't exploit the capabilities of the guns or the energy availability from the powder. Publishing the actual values achieved isn't something often seen.
I wouldn't myself ever have shot .45 Long Colt in a WG. I've seen too many scary exhibits in the window at Fulton's years ago to want to shoot anything outside the standard design envelope in a Webley .455. There are probably more than a few of England's foes who could testify to the effectiveness of the standard round, too - were there to be a spirit world whence such testimony might be communicated...
Regards,
MikB
Cheers,
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Banned
WG = Webley-Greene - a high-class version of the standard Webley revolver in .455 Webley. THE definitive collectible Webley when we were allowed to have them.Mik, what is "WG", and "Fulton's"?
Cheers,
Jim
Fultons is one of the oldest gun-dealers and target rifle converters in the business. Located in Bisley Camp, they are an institution. In the good old days of .303 military match shooting, to have a gun marked 'Regulated by Fultons' was to improve your chances of being 'chaired' by a substantial margin.
tac
Banned
Sir - not sure what you mean by this comment. The British were among the first to see the advantages of elongated bullets - back as far as 1842, IIRC - and actually went to the Crimean War with the Pattern 42 and 53 rifled musket - both of which shot a Minie bullet and not a round ball. True, they were rather slower to adopt metallic cartridge, bullet-firing handguns, but so was everybody else. Over the other side ofthe Atlantic Ocean, The War of Northern Agression was fought on both sides with ball-firing handguns.
tac
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
OK, Thanks, Tac.
Cheers,
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Yep!
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Guest
Ssshhh ! Don't say too much - the exemption from the ban in 1997 was argued on the basis of them being "antiquated" things which shoved out more smoke and noise than lead. (To paraphrase somewhat).
Banned
I shoot a 600gr hexagonal lead bullet propelled by 100gr of FFg from my Whitworth military match rifle out to 1200 yards. It's true to say that it doesn't not bounce off the target at that distance, but goes right through and out the other side...
I would certainly not stand there.
tac
Nfn rng w txt spk
Sorry, Tac, you're quite right historically. I meant in the modern BP shooting fraternity. I might be out of touch since it's 20 years since I shot a front-stuffer revolver, but all of the BP shooters in the pistol club I was in used round ball, and conical bullets were never to be seen.
(I got an impressive picture of a repro 1861 .44 going off around that time, but can't find it now...)
Regards,
MikB
...history... is, indeed, little more than the register of the crimes, follies, and misfortunes of mankind. (Edward Gibbon: Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire)
Banned
Ah, right. You gots to remember that over the Great Water they are allowed to go handgun hunting with a BP handgun, and do. Hogs are favourite game with stocious loads in the likes of the ROA with ball or conical - I'm told that it IS possible to get over 45gr of FFg in behind a ball, but obviously I've never tried. My walker, however, easily takes 55gr of FFg and a ball, and shoots it very well, thanks.Sorry, Tac, you're quite right historically. I meant in the modern BP shooting fraternity. I might be out of touch since it's 20 years since I shot a front-stuffer revolver, but all of the BP shooters in the pistol club I was in used round ball, and conical bullets were never to be seen.
(I got an impressive picture of a repro 1861 .44 going off around that time, but can't find it now...
Regards,
MikB
tac
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