any one shoot 45-70 Sharps

[middaycowboy]

Had a shot with a Pedersoli Sharps 45-70 single shot on wed, very impressed, it was loaded with Pyrodex, thinking might get one but ? can I load it on my Lee press and is the action called a Rolling Block ? it had a short lever on the trigger guard which opened the action and pulled the shell out about 1/2 inch, it had an internal hammer not on the outside like a percussion musket, the owner called it a Sharps Buffalo gun, it was too busy to ask more questions, cheers Tezz

[tacfoley]

Had a shot with a Pedersoli Sharps 45-70 single shot on wed, very impressed, it was loaded with Pyrodex, thinking might get one but ? can I load it on my Lee press and is the action called a Rolling Block ? it had a short lever on the trigger guard which opened the action and pulled the shell out about 1/2 inch, it had an internal hammer not on the outside like a percussion musket, the owner called it a Sharps Buffalo gun, it was too busy to ask more questions, cheers Tezz

If it was called a Pedersoli Sharps then it was probably a Perdersoli Sharps.

The Rolling block [designed by Remington Arms] is loaded by pulling back the hammer and the rotating part of the breech block and inserting the round.

On the other hand, the Sharps has a bloody ENORMOUS hammer on the right-hand side of the action, and a long lever underneath that doubles as the trigger guard.

To cock the piece, the hammer is hauled back to half-cock, and the lever is lowered, dropping the breech-block. the round is pushed into the breech and the lever raised, lifting the breech-block into battery. The hammer is them pulled back to full cock, and fired. To unload, put the hammer on half-cock and lower the lever and start all over again. The extraction is about 1/2 -3/4", BTW.

Both these pieces have hammers, the Sharps as big as any percussion musket.

The only 45-70 firearm that is vaguely as you describe the one you said you shot is the Ruger No1 - THAT has an internal hammer, and what you might call a small lever on the trigger guard. Do you mean that the hammer was visible, but behind the breech block? If so, then you have shot a Remington Rolling block, not a Sharps. Both are made in replica form by Pedersoli, and loading for them is a breeze.

Best with real BP though, rather than Pyrodex RS or C.

Have a look at these, and THEN tell us what you shot....right now, as right now I'm as confused as you are ...


Remington rolling block - http://bubbler.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/overview.jpg

Sharps - http://www.cherrys.com/pedpics/S771b.jpg

Ruger #1 - http://www.leveractions.com/images/No1Alaskan.jpg [take off the scope of course]

tac

[Anand]

Hi Tezz,
tac has pretty much explained it all
However, if the owner called it a Sharps, it could have been a Sharps Borchardt 1878. That’s the only Sharps that has an internal hammer similar to the modern Ruger No.1. However, from my very limited knowledge I don’t think the Borchardts were built with that under lever release as you mention. The only rifle I have seen that has that particular facility is the Ruger No.1. Or maybe, did you mean to say that the trigger guard actually swung down like a lever; if so, that is more like a regular Sharps action.

As for your original question, yes you can load a 45-70 on a Lee press. I have been doing so for some time now. Do get a Sharps if you really want one and try shooting it with black powder. You’ll soon be addicted

ATB.

[Treebone]

Sounds like a Winchester Hi-Wall Replica to me probably a Uberti sold under the Pedersoli brand.

[middaycowboy]

Thanx for the info tac, and you other guys, its none of those you have pictured tac, the owner said it was a Pedersoli Sharps, to load you put the internal hammer on half cock and pulled down the trigger guard ( which had a curled bit on the end ) which opened the breech and pulled the cartridge out about 1/4", you removed the case slid a fresh one in pulled up the trigger guard, pull hammer to full cock and go, looked thru the Kranks catalogue and it looks like the Uberti Hi Wall as treebone suggested but he definitely said is was a Pedersoli, just wondered what the cost would be and if I can reload it with the kit I have, once I have the dies, once again thanx for the info guys, cheers Tezz

[tacfoley]

Sounds like a Winchester Hi-Wall Replica to me probably a Uberti sold under the Pedersoli brand.

I'm confungled about the so-called 'internal hammer'. I have a Browning Model 1878 - a Winchester Hi-Wall by any other name, in 30-06, and THAT has an external hammer that you cock to load.....

tac

[tacfoley]

Well, Sir, all I can say is the owner might just be mistaken. The image I showed you of the Sharps is what the Sharps looks like - although some have longer barrels.

But none of them described by any of the other posters are like the one you seem to have fired.

THIS is the Winchester Hi-Wall....also replicated by Browning as the model 1878, and by Uberti.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...linguy/hw3.jpg

For your information, an internal hammer cannot be seen, and THAT is why it is called an internal hammer. You cannot touch an internal hammer as it is all totally concealed inside the frame or receiver of the action. To tell the truth, I can't think of a single popular example of a black powder rifle in .45-70 that has an internal hammer, unless you count the Ruger #1 carbine - being used to shoot black powder ammunition.

Let us know when you've figured out which one it may have been.

It seems very odd to me that the owner doesn't seem to know what he has in his possession.

tac, puzzled.

[greenshoots]

of couse you could try trailboss or xmp5744

Best with real BP though, rather than Pyrodex

viv

[Treebone]

Tac,
was that a pic of your own Hi-Wall? what a beauty

TB.

[Simon G]

This is my Pedersoli 1874 Sharps. It's the Long Range Express model with a 34 inch Half Octagonal/Half Round barrel. Fitted with Pedersoli USA431 vernier sights and adjustable eyepiece.

You can easily load .45-70 on Lee kit. I do. I stick to smokeless though. I use Hodgon H4198 with both 405gn and 500gn bullets.

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/7831/1303092y.jpg

[greenshoots]

heres apic of my trapdoor which is up for sale........


http://www.westernshootingsupplies.com/page6.htm

viv

[middaycowboy]

Well, Sir, all I can say is the owner might just be mistaken. The image I showed you of the Sharps is what the Sharps looks like - although some have longer barrels.

But none of them described by any of the other posters are like the one you seem to have fired.

THIS is the Winchester Hi-Wall....also replicated by Browning as the model 1878, and by Uberti.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...linguy/hw3.jpg

For your information, an internal hammer cannot be seen, and THAT is why it is called an internal hammer. You cannot touch an internal hammer as it is all totally concealed inside the frame or receiver of the action. To tell the truth, I can't think of a single popular example of a black powder rifle in .45-70 that has an internal hammer, unless you count the Ruger #1 carbine - being used to shoot black powder ammunition.

Let us know when you've figured out which one it may have been.

It seems very odd to me that the owner doesn't seem to know what he has in his possession.

tac, puzzled.

that looks like it tac, when I said internal hammer I meant not fitted on the outside of the action but inside the action like your photo, will try and get in touch with him to verify, fired a 44-40 pistol last year, cant have one of those so will consider a 45-70 rifle, thanx for the info

[tacfoley]

that looks like it tac,...thanx for the info

Happy to be of some help, me.

Get to my age and there's not a lot left except a lot darkness - a little helping lights a small spark...[sniff].

My Browning M78 in 30-06 is a beauty, but it's not the one in piccie I posted. Mine has a very thin gold line around the action, and a full octagonal barrel. The choice of calibre is somewhat odd, too, and with the 180gr bullet it kicks like a mule if you don't hold it good and tight. Mine has a 1930's era Ward & Swasey x3 scope on it, and it looks just right. It was a cancelled order by an Argentinian from FN in 1982, and it turned up, unused and unloved, up in our local dealership in Belleville ONT in 1998. I often wonder what happened to the original customer, although I can guess. That year was not a good one for Argentina, I seem to recall.

Best

tac

PS - many of us here have good loads for the 45-70, and I'm no exception.

[Craig-P]

We used to shoot 45/70 and 45/90 through Pedersoli's. My mate Shaun has the Quigley version which is simply beautiful, his Dad has one with a period 6x 'tube sight' CLICK.
The scope's are seriously expensive ( for what is essentially a x6 power, fixed brass tube optic ) and is adjusted via the mounts. We never found any benefit in accuracy using the scope over the excellent diopter sight, infact accuracy suffered a little as the adjustable mounts would wander under recoil - but the rifle looks the absolute nuts with a three foot long brass optic on it ( and Josey Wales used one so we left it on ).
The 90's aren't as accurate as the 70's but are so much fun to shoot, especially with BP as there's tons of kick and smoke
From memory there was a price hike and even the base model Sharps rose to over a grand, the Quigley model costing over two grand. I would imagine Henry Krank is still the place to order from and around £1500 would secure a decent model.
Middaycowboy/Tezz, if you'd like more info on them, pop along to Wedgenock Rifle and Pistol club in Warwick on their open day ( you're not a million miles away ). There are tons of people using them there as that particular club has a range velocity limit ( meaning you can't use a 250 fpe hmr rifle but a 5000 fpe Sharps is no problem ). They're great rifles to own.

ATB, Craig

[tacfoley]

...a 5000 fpe Sharps is no problem...ATB, Craig

Sir - using a ballistic calculator, I get the following muzzle energy readings for the two most popular bullet weights for the .45-70 Government cartridge -

300 (Trapdoor/Sharps) Lead PB 1,597 ft/s (487 m/s) 1,699 ft·lbf (2,304 J)

405 (Trapdoor/Sharps) Lead FN 1,394 ft/s (425 m/s) 1,748 ft·lbf (2,370 J)

300 (Standard - modern action) JHP 2,069 ft/s (631 m/s) 2,852 ft·lbf (3,867 J)

300 (Strong - modern action) JHP 2,275 ft/s (693 m/s) 3,449 ft·lbf (4,676 J)

How did you arrive at the figures that you quote, please?

tac