777 advice

[DaveJW]

I have just bought a Parker Hale 3 band Enfield .577 and was thinking of using 777 as I have a good supply of this powder (I use it in my Ruger Old Army). The powder I have is FFFG.
Can anyone tell me if this is okay for the 577. The previous owner used 50gn of Swiss for shooting 100 metres so I thought 40 gn (all by weight) of 777 would be about right. My club range is only 50 metres. Or, should I be buying something like Pyrodex? I have no black powder licence so a propellant is preferable. I am a complete beginner with a muzzle loading rifle so deadly accuracy isn't a consideration.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

[harricook]

Hi Dave

Hopefully TAC will come along with a better answer than I am about to give - but I'm sure 777 is too fine for a rifle I know TAC also shoots Pyrodex & not BP.

I am using either TS2 BP or 777 in my Pietta & Ruger OA & use a 'medium' grade black powder (from Peter Starley) in my 3 band (experimenting with 65gn loads at the moment.

777 measures by vol - but with such a small grain - you are likely to get too much oomph IMHO

TAC where are youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu ?

Roy

.

[tacfoley]

Hi Dave

Hopefully TAC will come along with a better answer than I am about to give - but I'm sure 777 is too fine for a rifle I know TAC also shoots Pyrodex & not BP.

I am using either TS2 BP or 777 in my Pietta & Ruger OA & use a 'medium' (from Peter Starley) black powder in my 3 band

777 measures by vol - but with such a small grain - yua are likely to get too much oomph IMHO

TAC where are youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu ?

Roy

.

Afternoom, Roy, mon vieux - yes, I DO shoot Pyrodex, but only in my revolvers - solid bullets, too, not with a whacking great hollow base and fragile skirt.

You have it absolutely right - shooting Minies, BP is all you should be shooting.

Shooting solid conicals, like a .54cal Hawken or similar, with whopping loads of around 90 - 110gr of RS is just fine, if you really have to, but I use only BP in MY .451cal BP rifle.

Besp

tac

[Smokeless Coal]

1. 777, Clean-shot and Pyrodex RS all need to be heavily compressed to work well in a muzzle-loader.

Wrong, 777 should not be compressed, it should be loaded loose with the wad just sitting on it not tamped down as you would with BP.

[tacfoley]

1. 777, Clean-shot and Pyrodex RS all need to be heavily compressed to work well in a muzzle-loader.

Wrong, 777 should not be compressed, it should be loaded loose with the wad just sitting on it not tamped down as you would with BP.

Thank you for your comment - however, I base my advice on the wording from Hodgdons own web-site notes regarding the loading of Triple Seven -

Quote - 'Seat the projectile firmly against the powder. Make sure that there is no airspace between the powder and the projectile.'

There is no mention of a wad there, nor do you use a wad when loading a .577 Minie bullet.

However, as I said to the OP, please feel free to ignore this.

tac

[DaveJW]

Thanks for the advice but nowhere did I mention trying to get centre fire performance from anything. I am new to this and just want to get the bullet to make it 50 metres to the target as a starting point.

If it has to be BP then that's what I will get - after I sort out the paperwork. I was just a bit keen to try the rifle this Sunday and happen to have a lot of 777 from my pistol. Does anyone know a stockist of BP in the Norfolk area? I seem to remember reading on here that it is getting harder to find.

[harricook]

Hi Dave

I buy mine Face to face from Peter Starley at one of the many shows he attends

I know he does mail order - not sure of the cost - give him a buzz - he friendly & helpfull

http://www.black-powder.co.uk/order.htm

Cheers

Roy

.

[tacfoley]

Thanks for the advice but nowhere did I mention trying to get centre fire performance from anything. I am new to this and just want to get the bullet to make it 50 metres to the target as a starting point.

If it has to be BP then that's what I will get - after I sort out the paperwork. I was just a bit keen to try the rifle this Sunday and happen to have a lot of 777 from my pistol. Does anyone know a stockist of BP in the Norfolk area? I seem to remember reading on here that it is getting harder to find.

...and I'm here to help, but starting a response to my post using just the word 'wrong' is pretty much guaranteed to p*ss in my hat, particularly since you go on to say that you are a noob to all this...

Many folks use FFg grade black powder rather than FG, and of all of them, 'Swiss #2' is held to be the best and most consistent. Pricey, but it's only money, and you prolly won't be shooting a pound a day. Get yourself a cheap digital jeweller's scales - mine came from ##### via the Ukraine. It is super accurate and cost me £6.50 - my Lyman version cost $164.94.

Get a telescopic brass powder measure so that you can decant the weighed load into it and set it up, but do NOT load out of a flask straight into the gun at any time. Having weighed out the load on the digital scale, pour it into the measure and set the plunger so that the powder is level with the rotating top cut-off.

THEN pour it into the muzzle. You could also pre-measure the load and use vials - IF you had a set of scales of some kind.

BTW - The service charge for the Enfield three-band rifled musket was 2.5 drams - that's 65gr as near as darn it. Something a mite less than that should be your starting point - say 60gr, see how it goes after three shots, and then up the charge if needed, not forgetting to swab out the bore between shots to give yourself a chance.

I'd be interested to know what bullet you are using, too, but whatever it is, it should be about 2 thou undersized, so that you can just 'thumb' it into the muzzle, and then, push it down firmly onto the charge. The bullet, of course, should be well-lubed in the grooves with something like Bore Butter or your own concoction. I make up a 50/50 mix of pure bees-wax and neat's foot oil for all my large BP bullets, even the paper-patched Whitworth.

Anything more, please ask.

tac

[tacfoley]

Nossir - this propellant is totally unsuitable for the .577 anything - especially in such a fine grain size. The real thing used Fg.

Large calibre replica or genuine muzzleloaders shoots tend not to shoot a Minie bullet with much degree of success when trying to equal the original BP load. Big loads of 777 can blow the centre out of the bullet, leaving the skirt in the bore for you to find next time you load it up. Preventing the bullet from being seated on the charge can have catastrophic effects when next fired. A bulged barrel can be the very least of your worries.

The previous owner knew what he was doing, IMO, so my advice to you is to replicate HIS loads, not try and get centre-fire rifle performance out of a 170-year old design.

You may, of course, ignore this advice.

tac

Post amended in the light of other posts

[harricook]

Hey TAC

I know I should have waited for you !!

Roy

.

[tacfoley]

I have just bought a Parker Hale 3 band Enfield .577 and was thinking of using 777 as I have a good supply of this powder...Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

Sir, I have just heard from a bunch of dedicated muzzleloading shooters from the USA, any and all of whom have more BP shooting experience in their ear-wax than I have in my entire body, and HERE is the advice -

'"The hollow base bullets shot in an Enfield have a habit of blowing out the skirts if they are fired with too great of a powder load. This needs to be recognized especially when using a powder that creates higher pressures than real black powder, like 777 does.

For this reason, if you wish to shoot your 777 in your Enfield I recommend that you limit the powder load to 50 grains maximum. Even with this small powder load the skirts of your bullets may blow out as they leave the muzzle thereby ruining any possibility of shooting tight groups.

If your groups are poor with a 50 grain load of 777 try reducing the load to 45 grains."

Best

tac