777 advice

[harricook]

Hey Tac

I've been experimenting with my Minies ...

I have been basically 'paper patching' them with a verythin stip of lubed kitchen roll (not 'hard' paper !) and also base filling them with lube too !

Not sure its making me shoot any better [embarrassed] - but I'm sure enjoying it (load/bullet 'tinkering') and finding it quite theraputic !

Any other 'tryouts' you know of with Minies ?

All the best

Roy

PS - never ended up living in Canada (still Berkshire) - but thanks for your 'Canadian' advise !!

[tacfoley]

Hey Tac

I've been experimenting with my Minies ...

I have been basically 'paper patching' them with a verythin stip of lubed kitchen roll (not 'hard' paper !) and also base filling them with lube too !

Not sure its making me shoot any better [embarrassed] - but I'm sure enjoying it (load/bullet 'tinkering') and finding it quite theraputic !

Any other 'tryouts' you know of with Minies ?

All the best

Roy

PS - never ended up living in Canada (still Berkshire) - but thanks for your 'Canadian' advise !!

Sir, the whole point about the Minie bullet is that it was designed NOT to be patched - it was designed to be an easy, accurate and very fast load by comparison with the predecessor patched ball.

Patching per se is either for RB [round ball] or for the later elongated target bullets in the 1850-1880 era shot from Rigby and similar match rifles of the day here in UK/Ireland and the USA/Canada, and for the wide range of continental Schuetzen-style rifles in Europe and the USA. In the USA in particular, the sport of heavy 'slug-gun' shooting is still immensely popular, with remarkable accuracy being achieved from two-piece bullets and cruciform patches....

Sorry, I digress.

As for filling up the base, well, go right on ahead, if it pleases you. It really makes no difference whatsoever, except using up the stuff. And [BTW, what do YOU use?

You have hit the main point of all this firmly on the head - '..enjoying it' and '...finding it very therapeutic', and THAT, my friend, is what it's all about.

Best graders

tac

[harricook]

Hi TAc

Maybe 'patching' is too strong a word - think thin kitchen roll that just keeps plenty of lube on the bullets - thats why I put (not hard paper) and the base fill is just more 'good ole lube' (Beeswax/Paraffin wax/Laneolic (spelling ??) Tallow) !! Tried Bore Butter & Wonderlube - both were far more expensive & no better IMHO

Remember the RFD that we met at (you were looking at S R rifles for your friend - thats twho got me started on 'patching' Minies
From his website..

"The 58 patched and lubed mini is excellent to shoot straight from the box but if you want that extra bit of consistency in competition then fill the base of your patched and lubed bullet with some of my lubricant and I am certain that you will not be disappointed with the results. (Little proviso here now, it is not going to make you a more accurate shooter it will just give the potential for a more consistent group.)"



Also have had a play with 'Target Minies' straight sided (with fine groove lube rings) rather than the usual 'ogive' ...... didn shoot no better in my hands !

...... and I never found anyone that could use those .583" H & N Minies you told me were for a Springfield - they all ended up in the post & recast into Minies for our 2 & 3 bands

All the best

Roy

[DaveJW]

Hi Tac,

I am very new to this muzzle loading and if you go back and read the thread it was not I who pi***d in your hat. Thanks for the contact for black powder, I imagined this would not be something you could post. Now I know different I will order some.

A guy at my club who has been shooting black powder since he was 12 years old (more than 50 years experience I would guess) told me not to weigh the charges but to get myelf a flask and load direct from that. Since I have scales for re-loading my .303 I will take your advice and weigh the charges out.

Many thanks,

[harricook]

Hi Dave

I weigh out 65gn charges on a scale & then put them in vials - when I run out of vials - I use roll film containers ... cheap & cheerfull - but it works !

Roy

.

[tacfoley]

Hi Dave

I weigh out 65gn charges on a scale & then put them in vials - when I run out of vials - I use roll film containers ... cheap & cheerfull - but it works !

Roy

And that, Sir, is a most excellent way of doing it. Most folks I know do it like that.

In fact, even I do it like that.

tac

[DaveJW]

Just found an American site for Cival War bods where a guy says they shoot FFF 777 with 500gn "bullets" getting "very accurate" results at 100 yards. Does anyone know if these would be solid base bullets - unlike the ones Steve Medlock kindly supplied with the gun? I am still going to organise some Swiss No 2 but I was just curious.

[tacfoley]

This is from 'hamkiller' -

'I had good sucess shooting T7 3f out of my Enfield Musketoon at a local trailwalk. I had developed a 3f black load of 42 grains for use at trailwalks shooting unsized Lee 500 grain traditional Minies and .575 sized Lyman Parker Hale 566 grain Minies. I loaded up a cartridge box full of both projectiles and taking into account the 15% greater power of T7 cut the charge to 35 grains of T7.

The course of fire was 30 rounds at targets mostly under 50 yds and the T7 rounds worked fine.
I could not tell difference in performance from black powder except no sulfur smell.'

You could do a lot worse than try, I'd guess.

tac

[DaveJW]

Hi again.

I joined the American site that tac recommended and saw that he was kind enough to mention my question over there. The concensious seems to be that you can use 777 FFFg but only in light loads with the traditional Minnie bullet (and only at short range). The recomendation was 50 gn and drop it to 45 if the groups are too big. Tac said he would put a correction on this site and I'll wait for that as they were talking about various bullet weights - which was going over my head a bit at this stage of my BP career.

It's a good site by the way and the guys over there are very friendly.

[tacfoley]

Hi again.

I joined the American site that tac recommended and saw that he was kind enough to mention my question over there. The concensious seems to be that you can use 777 FFFg but only in light loads with the traditional Minnie bullet (and only at short range). The recomendation was 50 gn and drop it to 45 if the groups are too big. Tac said he would put a correction on this site and I'll wait for that as they were talking about various bullet weights - which was going over my head a bit at this stage of my BP career.

It's a good site by the way and the guys over there are very friendly.

Please read the post above yours.

tac

[tacfoley]

Hi Tac,

I am very new to this muzzle loading and if you go back and read the thread it was not I who pi***d in your hat. Thanks for the contact for black powder, I imagined this would not be something you could post. Now I know different I will order some.

A guy at my club who has been shooting black powder since he was 12 years old (more than 50 years experience I would guess) told me not to weigh the charges but to get myelf a flask and load direct from that. Since I have scales for re-loading my .303 I will take your advice and weigh the charges out.

Many thanks,

Apologies for p*ssing in YOUR hat.

Your friend with 50 years experience who advocates loading straight from flask into gun has obviously NOT read the rules on muzzle-loading published by the MLAGB and NRA, or taken any notice of the Health and Safety usage of live explosive substances with regard to the use of loose black powder - itself a Class 1 explosive.

Respectfully remind him that loading direct from flask to barrel of a rifle or musket is actually prohibited on every range in Europe and here in UK, and has been for quite some time. Try it at Wedgenock and see what happens.

Passing the powder from flask to a loader, such as the one I mentioned, IS acceptable, and indeed recommended as one of the safe methods of loading a rifle, but doing as he tells you will get you thrown off the range everywhere that I have shot.

Needless to say it is also dangerous.

But, as ever, I add my proviso - he can do as he wants, that is his prerogative, but in doing so he might recklessly endanger bystanders. True, he might get lucky, and just end up with an instant flame-thrower in his hand, but he could also just as easily end up with a half-pound black powder bomb. Call me a wimp if you like, but I still have all my orginal eyeballs, fingers and thumbs - even the eyebrows are as issued. Remember that they can make pretty convincing rubber hands these days - you can even pick your nose with them, and perform other wondrous feats of dexterity.

But so far they have failed utterly in their attempts to make a working rubber eyeball, or to re-attach a head.

He has been extraordinarily lucky so far - but I wouldn't want to be anyplace near him when his luck finally runs out.

tac

[Smokeless Coal]

Regarding compressing 777, the datails related to cartridges gives a better bit of detail.

Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads


Hodgdon 777 is Scultze type bulk powder and is made of either Nitrocelluose or Nitroligin (nitrated wood pulp) with potassium nitrate as a burning rate moderator. Hodgdon 777 burns at a similar rate to BP, but it is still a progressive type powder and it will burn faster if compressed.

[tacfoley]

Regarding compressing 777, the datails related to cartridges gives a better bit of detail.

Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads


Hodgdon 777 is Scultze type bulk powder and is made of either Nitrocelluose or Nitroligin (nitrated wood pulp) with potassium nitrate as a burning rate moderator. Hodgdon 777 burns at a similar rate to BP, but it is still a progressive type powder and it will burn faster if compressed.

Over to you.

Now, please, provide the details for the loose-loading Minie bullet and similar.

tac

[Simon G]

Needless to say it is also dangerous.

How?

[tacfoley]

How?

I have no wish, nor intent, to get into a p*ssing match on a public forum, but the precaution seems eminently sensible to me.

Spark or wadding fragments remaining in barrel after firing = a possibility.

Spark ignites powder charge in barrel while being loaded with flask containing up to half a pound of Class 1 explosive substance being held in hand close to head = v. unpleasant.

Let me put it this way - if it had never happened, why do the authorities warn about it happening?

However, in addition to the DSB Schwarzpulverbund [the German equivalent of the NRA but for Blackpowder shooters], the N-SSA of the USA [with about 5000 members, and the NRA of the USA [about 4 million members] also ban this method of loading loose powder.

As, of course, do the UIT.

As ever, please feel free to do as you like. I have no control over what YOU do, but do try and be safe in your sport.

tac