777 advice

[tacfoley]

Hi Tac,

I am very new to this muzzle loading and if you go back and read the thread it was not I who pi***d in your hat. Thanks for the contact for black powder, I imagined this would not be something you could post. Now I know different I will order some.

A guy at my club who has been shooting black powder since he was 12 years old (more than 50 years experience I would guess) told me not to weigh the charges but to get myelf a flask and load direct from that. Since I have scales for re-loading my .303 I will take your advice and weigh the charges out.

Many thanks,

Apologies for p*ssing in YOUR hat.

Your friend with 50 years experience who advocates loading straight from flask into gun has obviously NOT read the rules on muzzle-loading published by the MLAGB and NRA, or taken any notice of the Health and Safety usage of live explosive substances with regard to the use of loose black powder - itself a Class 1 explosive.

Respectfully remind him that loading direct from flask to barrel of a rifle or musket is actually prohibited on every range in Europe and here in UK, and has been for quite some time. Try it at Wedgenock and see what happens.

Passing the powder from flask to a loader, such as the one I mentioned, IS acceptable, and indeed recommended as one of the safe methods of loading a rifle, but doing as he tells you will get you thrown off the range everywhere that I have shot.

Needless to say it is also dangerous.

But, as ever, I add my proviso - he can do as he wants, that is his prerogative, but in doing so he might recklessly endanger bystanders. True, he might get lucky, and just end up with an instant flame-thrower in his hand, but he could also just as easily end up with a half-pound black powder bomb. Call me a wimp if you like, but I still have all my orginal eyeballs, fingers and thumbs - even the eyebrows are as issued. Remember that they can make pretty convincing rubber hands these days - you can even pick your nose with them, and perform other wondrous feats of dexterity.

But so far they have failed utterly in their attempts to make a working rubber eyeball, or to re-attach a head.

He has been extraordinarily lucky so far - but I wouldn't want to be anyplace near him when his luck finally runs out.

tac

[Smokeless Coal]

Regarding compressing 777, the datails related to cartridges gives a better bit of detail.

Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads


Hodgdon 777 is Scultze type bulk powder and is made of either Nitrocelluose or Nitroligin (nitrated wood pulp) with potassium nitrate as a burning rate moderator. Hodgdon 777 burns at a similar rate to BP, but it is still a progressive type powder and it will burn faster if compressed.

[Simon G]

Needless to say it is also dangerous.

How?

[harricook]

.

........even the eyebrows are as issued.
tac

They looked drawn on to me !!!!

[big grin]

Roy

.

[tacfoley]

How?

I have no wish, nor intent, to get into a p*ssing match on a public forum, but the precaution seems eminently sensible to me.

Spark or wadding fragments remaining in barrel after firing = a possibility.

Spark ignites powder charge in barrel while being loaded with flask containing up to half a pound of Class 1 explosive substance being held in hand close to head = v. unpleasant.

Let me put it this way - if it had never happened, why do the authorities warn about it happening?

However, in addition to the DSB Schwarzpulverbund [the German equivalent of the NRA but for Blackpowder shooters], the N-SSA of the USA [with about 5000 members, and the NRA of the USA [about 4 million members] also ban this method of loading loose powder.

As, of course, do the UIT.

As ever, please feel free to do as you like. I have no control over what YOU do, but do try and be safe in your sport.

tac

[tacfoley]

Hi Dave

I weigh out 65gn charges on a scale & then put them in vials - when I run out of vials - I use roll film containers ... cheap & cheerfull - but it works !

Roy

And that, Sir, is a most excellent way of doing it. Most folks I know do it like that.

In fact, even I do it like that.

tac

[tacfoley]

Regarding compressing 777, the datails related to cartridges gives a better bit of detail.

Triple Seven In Cartridges: Use data specifically developed for Triple Seven FFG only. Cartridge loads should be used exactly as listed in this pamphlet. You may safely use a card or polyethylene wad up to .030" in thickness to protect the base of the bullet. Loading density should be 100% with light compression not to exceed .100". Testing has shown that Triple Seven will perform best when the bullet just touches the powder. Allow no airspace between the base of the bullet and the powder. Do not reduce loads by means of filler wads or inert filler material such as Grits, Dacron or Grex. Do not heavily compress powder charges. The use of filler wads, inert fillers or heavy compression may cause a dangerous situation, which could cause injury and/or death to the shooter, bystanders or damage property. Do not create loads for cartridges not listed. Contact Hodgdon Powder Company for recommendations concerning other loads


Hodgdon 777 is Scultze type bulk powder and is made of either Nitrocelluose or Nitroligin (nitrated wood pulp) with potassium nitrate as a burning rate moderator. Hodgdon 777 burns at a similar rate to BP, but it is still a progressive type powder and it will burn faster if compressed.

Over to you.

Now, please, provide the details for the loose-loading Minie bullet and similar.

tac

[Smokeless Coal]

The original poster has already been advised a skirted minnie and 777 may not be a good idea.

777 will burn faster than BP so could damage the skirt, not seen any evidence myself but using logic if theres a fear of it I would not do it.

Getting back to the original poster, with no BP ticket or storage can he use 777. I would say yes if you can get solid base bullets or use ball then why not. For short range practice with a lowish load I would look to go lighter with the bullet anyway to prevent unnecessary damage to the range backstop.

You can use the flask to measure powder but pour into vials before barrel.

[tacfoley]

The original poster has already been advised a skirted minnie and 777 may not be a good idea.

777 will burn faster than BP so could damage the skirt, not seen any evidence myself but using logic if theres a fear of it I would not do it.

Getting back to the original poster, with no BP ticket or storage can he use 777. I would say yes if you can get solid base bullets or use ball then why not. For short range practice with a lowish load I would look to go lighter with the bullet anyway to prevent unnecessary damage to the range backstop.

You can use the flask to measure powder but pour into vials before barrel.

Thank you for your supportive post. You have reinforced everything I wrote.

Your check is in the mail.

tac

[Smokeless Coal]

My original comment remains, dont compress 777 it makes is burn even faster.

I have some further investigating to do regading use of filler. Hodgdons suggest a wonderwad under the ball is all. I like the ball at the front of my revolver cylinder so fill it out, but this is against the recomendations.

[tacfoley]

My original comment remains, dont compress 777 it makes is burn even faster.

I have some further investigating to do regading use of filler. Hodgdons suggest a wonderwad under the ball is all. I like the ball at the front of my revolver cylinder so fill it out, but this is against the recomendations.

Dear Mr Coal - see your pm.

Best

tac

BTW - the extremely shallow rifling in the Enfield was designed from the onset to accommodate a bullet with an expanding base, that upsets into this shallow rifling. A solid base bullet would probably not do this, and might have the same accuracy as pitching the bullet under-arm. A load that would upset a solid bullet as big as this would necessarily be VERY hard on the shoulder, and might even be dangerous to shoot with the comparatively thin-walled barrel of the P53-style arm. True, I can shoot cylindro-conoidal bullets out of my hexagonal-rifled Whitworth, and find them, in the backstop, converted by the ka-boom into perfect hexagons, but I'm shooting between 90 and 100gr of FFg in THAT load [safely, I might add, since that is the load stamped on the barrel]. Doing the same with a 600gr .577 solid bullet and an equal amount of charge would be very interesting.

Once.

[Simon G]

I have no wish, nor intent, to get into a p*ssing match on a public forum, but the precaution seems eminently sensible to me.

Spark or wadding fragments remaining in barrel after firing = a possibility.

Spark ignites powder charge in barrel while being loaded with flask containing up to half a pound of Class 1 explosive substance being held in hand close to head = v. unpleasant.

Let me put it this way - if it had never happened, why do the authorities warn about it happening?

However, in addition to the DSB Schwarzpulverbund [the German equivalent of the NRA but for Blackpowder shooters], the N-SSA of the USA [with about 5000 members, and the NRA of the USA [about 4 million members] also ban this method of loading loose powder.

As, of course, do the UIT.

As ever, please feel free to do as you like. I have no control over what YOU do, but do try and be safe in your sport.

tac

Mine was simple question to your statement of the practice being regarded as "Needless to say it's dangerous". I was curious, that's all, as I couldn't really see it.

And if you don't want to get involved in a "pi$$ing match on a public forum", then try not to adopt such a condesending tone, for as soon as you do, your "decades of blackpowder shooting experience" goes out of the window and you show yourself as some sort of prissy ar$e......

[tacfoley]

Mine was simple question to your statement of the practice being regarded as "Needless to say it's dangerous". I was curious, that's all, as I couldn't really see it.

And if you don't want to get involved in a "pi$$ing match on a public forum", then try not to adopt such a condesending tone, for as soon as you do, your "decades of blackpowder shooting experience" goes out of the window and you show yourself as some sort of prissy ar$e......

Dear Mr Simon - I'm sorry indeed that I come over as a condescending and prissy ar$e, but it seems to me that pouring a comparatively large amount of highly-explosive powder down a barrel that many have just been fired, whilst at the same time holding a partially-sealed container of the stuff over the same barrel, is quite a dangerous thing to do.

Please watch the video at 1:41. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEB7gYZ-JmE

Condescending I might be, and prissy arse, probably, but you'll note that I did not call you a gloontrumpet for asking such a bone question in such a peremptory manner. Usually, one word questions to me get one word responses. You were lucky.

Best wishes

tac, formerly from the now-demolished barracks just up the road from you.

[Simon G]

tac, formerly from the now-demolished barracks just up the road from you.

No worries.

Well actually, sir, so am I.......

[tacfoley]

No worries.

Well actually, sir, so am I.......

PM me with details, if you care to.

Two green slimists shouldn't be fighting.

tac