Reply With QuoteJim most cartridge conversions fall foul if our batty laws
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Meaning, percussion revolvers converted to cartridge?
I was reading in a collector's guide that these sell for a steep discount as compared with the unconverted percussion pieces.
Which SHOULD eventually increase collectors' interest: given the high prices asked for percussions.
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
The Bulletproof Monk
Jim most cartridge conversions fall foul if our batty laws
A man can always use more alcohol, tobacco and firearms.
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
But not those chambered for obsolete caliber cartridges?
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
I shoot and I vote
Probably most of them too Jim.
Gun may be old but can you prove the date of the conversion?
We could not for instance have a firearm made for an obsolete cartridge today, age comes into it as well.
If the history of the piece was ok then it could be owned but not ammo. (sec 7.1).
If you wanted to fire it then it would have to be permanently stored at a range that is licenced for sec 7.3, I think there are 3 in the UK and storage fees are very high.
I don't think .45 short/long Colt is on the obsolete list which is what most conversions seem to be.
“If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Yes, I guess .45 Colt was probably the biggest conversion caliber, and it's still in common commercial production.
It does seem crazy that if the pistol is old, and the caliber is obsolete, you'd still be required to prove that the conversion from percussion to that cartridge caliber was also old!
Our federal laws here make more sense. Basically, if the receiver of the gun was made before January 1, 1899, it's an uncontrolled antique: the exceptions being if it's fully automatic, or if it falls short of the minimum length laws (16 inch barrel for a rifle, 18 inches for a shotgun, 26 inches overall for either).
Then there's the "curios and relics" category, for later-made guns in obsolete calibers, or which are otherwise deemed not likely to be criminally misused. These ARE controlled, just like any modern gun, but you can get a collector's license which allows you to circumvent the normal paperwork process.
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
I shoot and I vote
We can actually have a 1911 in 45 Jim.
But it has to be a bit special, such as the one John Wayne used in "the Longest Day" or a special comemorative issue. As part of a collection even modern produced are allowed, I know someone with a comprehensive collection of the AMT range.
Pity we have not adopted the EU categories as we are part of the European Union. Percussion fire arms or modern repoductions are exempt.
LBR and LBP would be recognised as what they are, long arms, and not in their own trumped up category.
“If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane
Registered User
If memory serves, there were no conversions to .45 Colt. The CB Richards conversions were to Army and Navy revolvers in .44 and .38 rimfire respectively.
William Mason took the Richards principal in the 1872 model and a few were manufactured in .44 centrefire, but the majority in .44 rimfire. It was the following year, that Mason added the top strap and chambered it in .45 for the Army trials, which became the 1873 SAA.
Again if memory serves, all rimfire cartridges of that era, except .22 and 9mm "garden gun" are obsolete. Some centerfre as well, but that may well change since the rise of CAS in the US and the re-manufacture of certain calibers as standard facory loadings.
I shoot and I vote
I was generalising on 45, the first conversions were Remingtons into .46 rimfire and later to .44 colt centerfire. As well as .36 and later .38. There was an interesting Remi conversion with a sliding firing pin that could fire r/f or c/f.
Most Colts were obviously changed to their own designed ammo.
Now a Remi rimfire will be rarer so a tad expensive to add to a collection, the most obvious find would be the Colt, ok in .44 centerfire. There were tens on thousands of factory conversions after 1869.
“If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane
Registered User
There were 9000 factory Richards conversions.Originally Posted by Smokeless Coal
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
This is a most interesting discussion! I had no idea that there were so many conversions of cap and balls to rimfire cartridges: I would have figured centerfires. But then, I guess we reinterpret history in the context of the present: we think of "rimfires" as being ".22's", and forget that in the past there were many larger-caliber rimfires.
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
I shoot and I vote
Bit on the history of conversions here
http://www.riverjunction.com/kirst/history.html
Richards and Mason were ex employees of Colt, Richards patented his conversion of them and Mason added an improvment.
Last edited by Smokeless Coal; 15-07-2009 at 01:50 PM.
“If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane
Registered User
Interesting stuff. I'm still not convinced by the numbers stated there though. I have books by Joseph Rosa, Doc O'Meara and C. Howard Moore that all put factory cartridge conversions of Colt revolvers at around 9000 and 7000 manufactured 1872's. Or is this article refering more to converted Remingtons and my obvious bias is getting in the way?
Jim, rimfire was indeed more popular during the latter stages of the 19th century, but this facilitated conversion as little had to be done to the hammer to ignite the rim primer. Converting to centerfire meant fixing a firing pin that would be durable enough.
To let you into a secret, I'm having a Cartridge Conversion replica made by a friend who is a part-time/hobbiest gunsmith. It will still be a muzzle loader as per S1, but will have an ejector rod and a loading gate as per the Richards pattern. But, is also being converted to use smokeless powder.......
This started because I found a genuine set of, in really great condition, aged ivory grips for an 1851 Navy revolver. The grips are worth twice what the gun will be!!!!!
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Sounds like a great project, Simon! Be sure to post pics of the finished product.
Kind of like buying a dog because you got hold of a really great dog collar!
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
Registered User
Once bought a suit because I found a really great tie.....Kind of like buying a dog because you got hold of a really great dog collar!
Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
Great article, Smokeless!
I knew that you were a BP pistol shooter, and a tireless gun rights campaigner, but didn't knew you were a BP scholar as well!
Jim
UBC's Police Pistol Manager
"Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone
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