saxby & palmer

[mjohno]

Had a look at a saxby & palmer air cartridge revolver recently and wonder if its possible to date it useing the serial number. It wont increase its value any but would be interesting to know.

[johnj]

Hi Mjohno,

Can't help you on dates but I know that a gunsmith I spoke some time ago told me how he used to convert these back to live fire rounds very easily.

And for that reason I think they are FAC only or possibly banned, someone will come along and correct me.

I liked the Galaxy rilfes they made (same applies from above) very pretty guns.

Johnj.

[JD75]

Banned, if you did not put it on your ticket five years ago then Section 5.

I have eight Saxby Palmer/Brocock which new cost in the region of £1500 now worth £0 as there is no legal way to sell them.

[BTDT]

They are Section 5 Firearms, can ONLY be owned by those who have them on FAC, CANNOT be sold or their ownership transferred, and so have no value as such.

[astraman1]

i dont think they are fac i think your not alowed to sell them though

a lad on my old thread has one maybe pm him he will tell you the law on these

http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=346767

[BTDT]

They are Section 5 Firearms.

Antisocial Behaviour Act 2003.

(3) In section 5 (weapons subject to general prohibition) after subsection (1)(ae) insert—
“(af) any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system;”.

[harry mac]

i dont think they are fac i think your not alowed to sell them though

Anyone who still has one must have it on an FAC. There was a very definate window in which this had to be done, and if you haven't done it you're stuck with an illegal firearm because there's now no legal way of registering them.
If the one you saw was not on an FAC I'd advise the owner to turn it in to a friendly RFD for proper destruction.
Illegal possession of a firearm is not something a shooter wants against his name, because he won't stay a shooter for very long!

[springfieldm6]

I could be wrong but I think that even handing it into your local RFD may be difficult - they can only accept them if they are authorised for Section 5 firearms (?). And I wouldn't be inclined to hand them into your local police either, in case they turn you over.

I believe that about 100,000 Saxby & Palmers, Brococks and Crown air cartridge guns were sold, and I bet only a fraction of those are taking up valuable space on FACs, like mine. That's plenty of people risking 5 year minimum in jail just for having an airgun. The government did not advertise the ban sufficiently prior to it taking place, and the lack of compensation certainly didn't encourage people to hand them in. Maybe another amnesty is needed. Alternatively you could get out the angle grinder, or post it to Gordon Brown.

[Powderfinger]

That RFD who claims that he used to turn TAC-guns into firearms is an idiot and has no place in the shooting community. It was stupid tinkering like that which led to the ban on TAC-guns.

[skeeter]

I agree with springfieldm6, I'm not sure even a section 5 RFD can handle them unless they have their RFD conditioned for tac guns, there were only going to be a few RFD's in the UK authorised to service and repair them.

Section 5 dealers all have different conditions attached to their RFD, some can shoot their firearms some can't, like dealers who just do deacts. There are lots of different classes of section 5 firearms, eg, Section 5, (1), 1,1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5, 1.6 (tac guns). Section 5 (1A), 7.1, 7.2, etc. the dealers have the numbers of the sub sections of the weapons they have the authority to own or posses printed on their RFD.

I know one who can have almost anything including RPG's, he is a film armourer, he is also a weapons expert and is regularly on the Discovery Channel in programs about weapons.

[Muskett]

Wipe it clean of all DNA and send it to Mr Brown, or the Home Secretary. The note should say that you don't know of a legal way of disposing it now that you have found it; and no you don't believe the Police are always responsible with firearms. Don't lick the envelope

[mjohno]

As I said in my original post I was interested to know the date of manufacture for no particular reason other than my own curiosity. I remember them being tested in the first edition of airgunner around 87 and wondered if the gun dated from that period.
BTDT is correct when he says they are described as (1)(af) in the section five listing, but last time I talked to the GTA regarding these it would appear that section five holders with that category could export them / take them in / sell them to each other.

[johnj]

That RFD who claims that he used to turn TAC-guns into firearms is an idiot and has no place in the shooting community. It was stupid tinkering like that which led to the ban on TAC-guns.

They started off life as a firearm and were converted by Saxby and Palmer and I think you'll find it was not illegal to convert them back to firearms back in the day you just put them back on ticket.

The RFD in question is very highly respected and all his work is done within the law.

Saxby and Palmer sould have done a proper coversion that could not be converted back, if you knew how easy it was to do you would agree.

Perhaps you should think twice before calling people idiots and saying they have no place in the shooting community as I would take a guess that the man in question has done more to protect and promote our sport than you or myself have ever done.

Johnj.

[Muskett]

I think they started out as Taurus?? South American ??, read cheap, revolvers and converted to take the air cartridge. The rifles were pretty well convertions too. Too convert them back was never going to be that difficult but then a half competant metal machinest can make a Sten gun in a weekend.

They were banned as a political short term gimmick. Its some of the worst, draconian, firearm law ever written. The way the law stands some innocent, upstanding, law abidng individual, is going to find themselves in jail. If you love your shooting then have nothing to do with them unless they are already on your ticket.

[Powderfinger]

Nope. I will not apologise for my remark about converting S-P/Brococks. Even if it was technically legal at the time, such actions (and the marketing in shooting magazines of kits to convert them) drew the wrong kind of attention to the TACs and attracted sensationalist stories in the press about concerted guns. Your gunsmith friend should have thought twice before converting them even if it was legal. I cannot see why he would do that anyway when it would have been cheaper to have just bought an Arminus revolver in the first place. I know what would have been involved in converting them. I worked in a gunsmiths at the time on both revolvers and on S-Ps but would never have dreamed of converting them. Some people might feel differently.