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Thread: Webley Hawk MkIII

  1. #1
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    Webley Hawk MkIII

    Hi,

    I have just acquired a Webley Hawk MKIII in .22. It seems like a tidy enough rifle, but i know nothing at all about it. If you nice chaps could answer a few questions i would be very grateful.

    What sort of power are these supposed to produce?

    Are the stocks interchangeable with the earlier models 'prettier' stocks?

    The stock is currently horribly varnished which i will remove and try to bring back to it's former glory. What colour would they be originally? a dark reddish or a more orangey colour?

    and lastly how much would it be worth in top nick as the blueing has worn and was thinking about having it reblued, if not i'll just spray it black(any tips on a nice black spray would be great)

    Thanks

    Rhodri

  2. #2
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    The Hawk Mk.3 was reviewed in the very first edition of Airgun World.

    I think Webley claimed 550fps from the .22", so around 9 ft. lbs.

    The stock was originally a fairly dark reddish brown.

  3. #3
    harry mac is online now You can't say muntjack without saying mmmmm
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    Hawks

    The Hawk MkIII was the last in the series, before they switched production to the Vulcan. I like the Hawks, but it has to be said they aren't very good guns. Faults to watch for are:-
    Loose/sloppy breech jaws, as the pivot pins are prone to wear.
    Threads being stripped on the front trigger guard screw hole.
    The welds holding the trigger mech housing to the cylinder are prone to snapping, and also,
    It is possible to find ones that go off on their own, typically if you go to fire the rifle but have forgotten to switch the safety catch to fire, obviously the rifle won't fire when you pull the trigger, but will then go off as you move the safety to the fire position.
    Finally, if the previous owner has put a stronger mainspring in it, replace it with a standard one or it will eventually lead to the hole where the cylinder end cap pin goes through becoming elongated.
    Power wise they rarely (if ever) achieve the advertised 550 fps, but are usually a little bit more powerful than a Meteor of the same vintage.
    The MkIII won't fit in to any of the earlier stocks.
    In what's left of my collection I have almost the full set of Hawks, the only example I'm missing is an early MkII in a MkI style stock.
    Please don't paint it, doing that will destroy any collector value it either has at present or is likely to gain in the future.
    The South of England has 2 good things, the M1 and the A1. Both will take you to Yorkshire.

  4. #4
    Neil. is offline Never get out of the boat
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  5. #5
    harry mac is online now You can't say muntjack without saying mmmmm
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neil. View Post
    Horrible things.
    Maybe in context to today. But I can remember the morning of my 11th birthday, getting up and coming down stairs. My dad said, "pull us that box out from behind the sofa will you". Guess what. It was a brand spanking Webley Hawk MkII. Collecting's all about nostalgia and that one memory keeps the Webley Hawk as my favourite air rifle.
    The South of England has 2 good things, the M1 and the A1. Both will take you to Yorkshire.

  6. #6
    I. J. is offline I will stoop lower than a snakes wedding tackle for Relum bits
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry mac View Post
    Faults to watch for are:-
    Loose/sloppy breech jaws, as the pivot pins are prone to wear.
    Threads being stripped on the front trigger guard screw hole.
    The welds holding the trigger mech housing to the cylinder are prone to snapping, and also,
    It is possible to find ones that go off on their own, typically if you go to fire the rifle but have forgotten to switch the safety catch to fire, obviously the rifle won't fire when you pull the trigger, but will then go off as you move the safety to the fire position.
    Finally, if the previous owner has put a stronger mainspring in it, replace it with a standard one or it will eventually lead to the hole where the cylinder end cap pin goes through becoming elongated.
    But apart from that there O.K. ?

    ATB
    Ian
    Sec of Rivington Riflemen. Their website: http://www.rivington-riflemen.eu
    My gun collection http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v485/Airsniper/

  7. #7
    Neil. is offline Never get out of the boat
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry mac View Post
    Maybe in context to today. But I can remember the morning of my 11th birthday, getting up and coming down stairs. My dad said, "pull us that box out from behind the sofa will you". Guess what. It was a brand spanking Webley Hawk MkII. Collecting's all about nostalgia and that one memory keeps the Webley Hawk as my favourite air rifle.
    The MKII was streets ahead of the awfull MKIII.

    Personally I prefer the MKI, but the MKII was the more robust item.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry mac View Post
    Maybe in context to today. But I can remember the morning of my 11th birthday, getting up and coming down stairs. My dad said, "pull us that box out from behind the sofa will you". Guess what. It was a brand spanking Webley Hawk MkII. Collecting's all about nostalgia and that one memory keeps the Webley Hawk as my favourite air rifle.
    Happy times.I had a similar experience with a Diana G80.You never forget your first rifle and it will always be the best aswell.

  9. #9
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    looks like i've got a real cracker then lads

  10. #10
    T 20 is offline Super Moderator and spoonbender
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry mac View Post
    Faults to watch for are:-
    Loose/sloppy breech jaws, as the pivot pins are prone to wear.
    Threads being stripped on the front trigger guard screw hole.
    The welds holding the trigger mech housing to the cylinder are prone to snapping, and also,
    It is possible to find ones that go off on their own, typically if you go to fire the rifle but have forgotten to switch the safety catch to fire, obviously the rifle won't fire when you pull the trigger, but will then go off as you move the safety to the fire position.
    Finally, if the previous owner has put a stronger mainspring in it, replace it with a standard one or it will eventually lead to the hole where the cylinder end cap pin goes through becoming elongated.
    Quite right harry mac

    It always surprised me that Webley carried all these faults over into the Vulcan, to the extent of even using the same trigger group, barrel and breach setup.

    I recently managed to buy a scrap Hawk MK2 off here for spares at 25 posted, I forgot to ask the seller the calibre.

    http://www.airgunbbs.com/forums/show...light=Hawk+MK2

    When it arrived I couldn't believe it, the gun was just as described-----scrap,
    a dog had even chewed through the pistol grip.

    Mind you it did have a good .177" barrel so at least I have both calibres now.

    And it did give me a spare piston and cylinder to try O rings out on (19mm Id x 2.5mm works Guy ).


    All the best Mick

  11. #11
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    I got given a brand new Mk 111 on my 13th birthday, it put a huge smile on my face that's for sure, but i agree with all the above, the gun eventually fell apart in my hands literately as all the stock screws stripped allowing the action to jump around somewhat

  12. #12
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    Horrible triggers: Agricultural handling-but very tune-able. I recently aquired a Minter for a work colleague, which was subsequently tuned to perfection by a BBS member, for the princely sum of 75.00.
    Never go off half cocked....
    Proud member of the YCHJCYA2PDTHFH club

  13. #13
    harry mac is online now You can't say muntjack without saying mmmmm
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    Quote Originally Posted by T 20 View Post
    Quite right harry mac
    And it did give me a spare piston and cylinder to try O rings out on (19mm Id x 2.5mm works Guy ).
    I'd be interested to hear the results of the o-ring experiment. Does it increase the power at all?
    I've got a spare MKIII which is there solely to act as a donor rifle for spare parts should the others need them. It exhibits nearly every fault that the Hawks are renowned for.
    The South of England has 2 good things, the M1 and the A1. Both will take you to Yorkshire.

  14. #14
    T 20 is offline Super Moderator and spoonbender
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    Quote Originally Posted by harry mac View Post
    I'd be interested to hear the results of the o-ring experiment. Does it increase the power at all?
    I've got a spare MKIII which is there solely to act as a donor rifle for spare parts should the others need them. It exhibits nearly every fault that the Hawks are renowned for.
    Hi Harry

    I've not tried the O rings in a working gun yet as I need to get a few parts from John Knibbs' before I start.
    The original PTFE rings never seemed to work very well and when they did they didn't last very long. On hydraulic applications a PTFE ring like that would have a rubber ring under it to force it outwards onto the cylinder wall to create a good seal. The Hawk and Osprey rings just tend to sit on the piston with no inbuilt spring to keep them in contact with the cylinder wall.

    The 19mm Id x 2.5mm O rings when fitted give an overall crush of 0.028" with 0.014" crush per side. This is a little bit less than I had hoped for but should still work well enough in a small cylinder (24.8mm). When I eventually get around to sorting my Hawk I'll be fitting two O rings to the piston and the gap between them will be used as a reservoir of MS50, this is an old John Bowkett trick I'd like to try and the Hawk lends its self to it rather well.

    I'm hoping for a small increase in power with this mod as the piston will have a more positive seal using O rings, so all the air in the cylinder should go up the pipe instead of some blowing past the PTFE rings. I always find O ring seals give a really good shot to shot consistancy as well, so using O rings on the piston should be a win -win situation.


    All the best Mick

  15. #15
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    Hi, I have just aquired a MkII Hawk and it like Harrymac has described in post 3 the end cap pin has distorted the piston tube and the trigger block has fractured and broke off, I was able to set the trigger and chrono it with Bisley Magnums .177 and recorded 10.78ft/lbs, obviously uprated spring at some time. There was no safety. I wonder if it was safer using without than with one? All the recoil and stress has created a split in the stock(repaired) and this pressure has travelled back to the trigger guard pin and transfered leverage to the trigger block (chain reaction) causing metal fatigue and snapping welds. I was hopeing to resurect this gun but it is looking rather doubtfull now.

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