Antique Firearm collecting

[greenshoots]

i have a martini cav and a snider cav carbine .......

viv

[Fronteria]

Hi. All.
I have be collecting for about 40 years my collection covers from 1750 to 1900 and includes India pattern and various other muskets, flint and percussion Shot guns by Henry Nock etc, pepper pot revolvers, various other single and double barrel pistols, bayonets, swords, flasks both powder and shot, shot and powder measures, cartridge reloading tools, nipple wrenches etc, military issued tools from India pattern to SA80. military issue fighting knives and folding knives, etc etc.
Air rifles and pistols: air gun collection includes: Webley Service with all three calibre barrels and other Webley's to 1980, Colchester Gamekeeper no: 00012, W.R Pape Newcastle, several BSA's from around 1906 to 2000 several types of Webley air pistol from 1930's to 2005 including some from their museum when they went bust.
If you are starting a circle or group on antique militatia and arms collecting count me in.

[Gareth W-B]

Hi Fronteria. have just approved your 2nd BBS post as above. Always good to welcome a fellow Chelmsfordian to the forum. I hope you enjoy your cyber time here . Atb: Gareth.

[Jim McArthur]

I consider myself a wannabe or maybe-someday collector. I do have a pinfire revolver, and a Bulldog revolver.

I would want to learn more before I start investing much money into it: for one thing, learn what type interests me the most, since I'd want to specialize. Just haven't hit on THE specialty yet!

Jim

[Fronteria]

I consider myself a wannabe or maybe-someday collector. I do have a pinfire revolver, and a Bulldog revolver.

I would want to learn more before I start investing much money into it: for one thing, learn what type interests me the most, since I'd want to specialize. Just haven't hit on THE specialty yet!

Jim

Hi Jim
People collect for several reasons from enjoying owning and in some cases using the peice, tracing the history of it this is pretty straight forward with military weapons as they are very often marked with the regiments initials and dated by the store keeper unless somebody has tried to enhance! the value and have cleaned the the lot off, the real effect is that they have reduced the value as every mark and ding is part of its history.
Some are purchased for pure investment which is risky as they tend to know little about what they are purchasing if you follow a antique gun through the system which I have done on several occasions when I have been beaten at an auction you will find that the retail price will be made up from the price paid plus the auctioners commission, the sum total is then doubled to make up the retail price.
What a shock the invester gets when they are trying to sell it five years later when the best offer is less than 75% of the original purchase price.
A word of warning if you are going to use an antique gun get it reproofed no matter how good it looks.
Earlier this year I got a Martini Henry carbine which looked in very good condition with a very good bore so I thought I would put it on my ticket and use it.
A gunsmith friend checked it over and found it visually sound in in both bore and action so it was sent to the proof house where it passed the view but failed proof when the barrel was blown completely off and in half two inches beyond the chamber the forend wouldn't have held the pressure so I would been injured was it worth the £30-00 cost to proof test it?
How much value do you put on your hand or fingers say for arguments sake £10-00 a finger or £30-00 a hand?
Jeff

[mjohno]

For the most part pre WWII exposed hammer gallery rifles by Winchester and Colt are my particular poison.

[harry mac]

For the most part pre WWII exposed hammer gallery rifles by Winchester and Colt are my particular poison.

Hi Johno. PM waiting to be inbound for you but I'm getting notification your in box is full. Do a spot of clearing out will you?

[Jim McArthur]

For the most part pre WWII exposed hammer gallery rifles by Winchester and Colt are my particular poison.

Sounds like something that could really grab my interest also!

Jim

[robinghewitt]

People collect for several reasons from enjoying owning and in some cases using the peice

Hi Jeff

I like a real piece of history, repro's may be more accurate but they don't have the appeal of something that was actually there.

I don't shoot as much as I used to but I can't give up my ML clayshoot once a month and I just added a breech loading flintlock rifle to the heap that seems to warrant a bit of shooting. I have been comparing notes with a bod in America and we seem to have exactly the same problems with it so I know it's not just me.

I went on a wild gun buying splurge when I discovered my antique fetish meant I could buy anything I wanted without paperwork. I now have the paperwork and most everything from pocket pistols to cannon. I have also become a lot more picky, the only gaping hole in my collection is I don't have a blunderbus, have to get a blunderbus

Robin

[njaw]

This is great. It sounds like there are quite a few collectors here.

I myself used to collect vintage airguns like they were going out of fashion but around three years ago I saw a lovely double barrelled percussion overcoat pistol circa 1850 and knew I just had too have it. I have never looked back! (I still have a fair few airguns, particularly the good old Webley pistols).
I always try and save enough money so that I can get a decent piece rather than a ropey effort. It’s better to buy one good piece than two or three rough pieces.

My collection stands so far at:

FLINTLOCK
A stunning brass barrelled blunderbuss pistol by Walker, London (circa 1690)
A pair of brass framed and barrelled pocket pistols Joseph Heylin, London
An all brass over & under pistol with bayonet by Wheeler, London
A large officers pistol with fish tail grip by Tipping, Bath
A long sea service pistol with numerous ordnance markings (circa 1803)

PERCUSSION
A stunning double barrelled overcoat pistol (no name, marked London but Birmingham proofs)
A pocket pistol by Joseph Manton
A top-hat pocket pistol be Henry Nock
Colt 1860 Army revolver (I just had to have one)

PINFIRE
A small closed frame pistol. Fully engraved and nickel plated. Cased with accessories

[Jim McArthur]

Hi Jeff
the only gaping hole in my collection is I don't have a blunderbus, have to get a blunderbus

Robin

But, wouldn't the muzzle ADD another "gaping hole" to your collection?

Jim

[Jim McArthur]

Hi Jim
A word of warning if you are going to use an antique gun get it reproofed no matter how good it looks.
Earlier this year I got a Martini Henry carbine which looked in very good condition with a very good bore so I thought I would put it on my ticket and use it.
A gunsmith friend checked it over and found it visually sound in in both bore and action so it was sent to the proof house where it passed the view but failed proof when the barrel was blown completely off and in half two inches beyond the chamber the forend wouldn't have held the pressure so I would been injured was it worth the £30-00 cost to proof test it?
How much value do you put on your hand or fingers say for arguments sake £10-00 a finger or £30-00 a hand?
Jeff

A great warning there, Jeff!

Jim

[barryeye]

[QUOTE=Fronteria;3742270]Hi Jim
Earlier this year I got a Martini Henry carbine which looked in very good condition with a very good bore so I thought I would put it on my ticket and use it.
A gunsmith friend checked it over and found it visually sound in in both bore and action so it was sent to the proof house where it passed the view but failed proof when the barrel was blown completely off and in half two inches beyond the chamber the forend wouldn't have held the pressure so I would been injured was it worth the £30-00 cost to proof test it?
How much value do you put on your hand or fingers say for arguments sake £10-00 a finger or £30-00 a hand?

I don't doubt you but I have to ask how your Martini could have passed the proof test when made but failed it later? I assume firearms can go out of proof with ware but with age?
Are you sure it was not one of the Khyber pass specials that are now all to common? Some of them look very very much like the real thing.
Barry

[Fronteria]

[QUOTE=barryeye;3744150]

Hi Jim
Earlier this year I got a Martini Henry carbine which looked in very good condition with a very good bore so I thought I would put it on my ticket and use it.
A gunsmith friend checked it over and found it visually sound in in both bore and action so it was sent to the proof house where it passed the view but failed proof when the barrel was blown completely off and in half two inches beyond the chamber the forend wouldn't have held the pressure so I would been injured was it worth the £30-00 cost to proof test it?
How much value do you put on your hand or fingers say for arguments sake £10-00 a finger or £30-00 a hand?

I don't doubt you but I have to ask how your Martini could have passed the proof test when made but failed it later? I assume firearms can go out of proof with ware but with age?
Are you sure it was not one of the Khyber pass specials that are now all to common? Some of them look very very much like the real thing.
Barry

Hi. Barry
The gun was a genuine Enfield manufactured martini henry gun.
A Kyber pass special wouldn't have got pass the proof house viewing stage of the proof process.
The problem is you never know what has happened to the gun during it's last hundred odd years of life.
People do strange things to guns like a .22 sporter that wouldn't group and keyholed every shot, the guy had tried to remove the barrel to clean it and had twisted the rifling and straightened it out in one spot he then re twisted it back as the front sight was off to one side.
The problem was only found when a very tight patch was pushed down the barrel.
Some so called home gunsmiths are a menace and you don't have a record of what has happened to any gun you purchase particularly antiques.
Antique guns get bodged and abused up just like cars and you cannot always spot a problem before it's too late.
jeff

[loach369]

[QUOTE=barryeye;3744150]

Hi Jim
Earlier this year I got a Martini Henry carbine which looked in very good condition with a very good bore so I thought I would put it on my ticket and use it.
A gunsmith friend checked it over and found it visually sound in in both bore and action so it was sent to the proof house where it passed the view but failed proof when the barrel was blown completely off and in half two inches beyond the chamber the forend wouldn't have held the pressure so I would been injured was it worth the £30-00 cost to proof test it?
How much value do you put on your hand or fingers say for arguments sake £10-00 a finger or £30-00 a hand?

I don't doubt you but I have to ask how your Martini could have passed the proof test when made but failed it later? I assume firearms can go out of proof with ware but with age?
Are you sure it was not one of the Khyber pass specials that are now all to common? Some of them look very very much like the real thing.
Barry

FWIW: I have seen Sold out of Service / DP Martini rifles and carbines that have been 'deactivated' with a thin saw cut just forward of the knox form. I have also seen examples like this subsequently TIG/MIG welded,or even filled with Isopon or lead, aged and the chamber cleaned up with a reamer. Not saying that is what happened with your one but I cant see a rewelded or filled barrel passing proof.