Original Model 35: OK for Vintage?

[Jim McArthur]

Mates, a question has come up about the Original Model 35: was it out of production before 1986, so as to enable it to qualify for our Vintage comps?

Originals aren't listed in my Blue Book of Airguns.

Jim

[BeerJam]

Hi Jim, it looks like you just miss out 1987 was the end of the line for this rifle, apparently.

Cheers, Mark

[I. J.]

The Original may be date stamped. Just above the trigger and between the scope rail on the l/h side in VERY small numbers should be the month and year of manufacture.

HTH
Ian

[BeerJam]

Surely the Vintage status should be a relative thing i.e. guns that have been out of production for X number of years, rather than a fixed date.
The date of 1986 that was set at the start of this series was 23 years ago, what was the science behind choosing that date?
Maybe we should consider a change to the classification to allow for this. Or are we trying to exclude a specific type of airgun technology by using the present 1986 cutoff point?

I am not unhappy with the current rules, but am interested to know the reasoning

Cheers, Mark

[Jim McArthur]

Hi Jim, it looks like you just miss out 1987 was the end of the line for this rifle, apparently.

Cheers, Mark

Thanks, Mark!

So, the Original 35 is the same thing as the Diana 35? Maybe that's why I can't locate the Original brand in my Airguns Blue Book.

Jim

[Jim McArthur]

Surely the Vintage status should be a relative thing i.e. guns that have been out of production for X number of years, rather than a fixed date.
The date of 1986 that was set at the start of this series was 23 years ago, what was the science behind choosing that date?
Maybe we should consider a change to the classification to allow for this. Or are we trying to exclude a specific type of airgun technology by using the present 1986 cutoff point?

I am not unhappy with the current rules, but am interested to know the reasoning

Cheers, Mark

Mark, I recall that the year 1986 was selected because some other comp was using it as THEIR cut-off date. A dubious basis for the UBC to select, perhaps...but then, you must have SOME criteria.

I do recall that we selected "out of production by..." as our basis, for two reasons: 1) it's frequently hard to determine the date a particular piece (the ndividual specimen that you're holding in your hand) of air gun was made.

2) there was a sense that, even if you could, a particular gun wasn't "vintage" if it was still in production.

Hope this makes some sense....

Jim

[Jim McArthur]

The Original may be date stamped. Just above the trigger and between the scope rail on the l/h side in VERY small numbers should be the month and year of manufacture.

HTH
Ian

See my other message for our reasoning there, Ian.

Jim

[badfish]

Thanks, Mark!

So, the Original 35 is the same thing as the Diana 35? Maybe that's why I can't locate the Original brand in my Airguns Blue Book.

Jim

wasnt the orginal name changed to diana in the early 80's when milbro went t*ts up therefore the original could be pre 86?

ta
james
(just testing as its my gun and i'd love to use it in the comp. the gun itself is from novenmber 1978......cant blame me for trying ey? )

ps thanks for everyone that is helping me.

[Jim McArthur]

Hmm...now there's an issue unto itself....if the name / manufacturer of the same model gun is changed, and the gun continues in production under the new name /manufacturer, does that mean that the same model gun under the OLD name / manufacturer therefore "went out of production"?

I'd be inclined to say, NO.

We're talking here about shooting models, not collector's items (which is where such a change would matter).

But I'm interested in hearing other's thoughts on this idea.


Jim

[Jerry Cornelius]

My immediate thought was no.

But then I thought I had shot a round of the vintage pistol comp with a hyscore 802. No problem, they were last made in about 1970.

EXCEPT, that the tooling for hy scores was sold to Phoenix arms who made some "hy scores" in the early 1990s. (As it happens not the 802 though)

So does the fact that Phoenix reused the tooling in the 90's mean 1960's hy scores aren't vintage? And do I need to open a beer instead of worrying about these things?

I think we know the answer to one of those questions....

[royalscotsgrays]

hi going on the point that if the gun is still beeing made the bsa meteor will never be vintage ?

[Jim McArthur]

hi going on the point that if the gun is still beeing made the bsa meteor will never be vintage ?

Under our present rules: no, it never will be.

And I close with a thought in mind...but want to see if anyone else thought of it that way before I comment....

Jim

[Jim McArthur]

My immediate thought was no.

But then I thought I had shot a round of the vintage pistol comp with a hyscore 802. No problem, they were last made in about 1970.

EXCEPT, that the tooling for hy scores was sold to Phoenix arms who made some "hy scores" in the early 1990s. (As it happens not the 802 though)

So does the fact that Phoenix reused the tooling in the 90's mean 1960's hy scores aren't vintage? And do I need to open a beer instead of worrying about these things?

I think we know the answer to one of those questions....

If they didn't re-introduce the 802, and it's remained out of production since about 1970...it's got to still be vintage!

But, your question contains the seeds of another good question....

Jim

[harry mac]

Under our present rules: no, it never will be.

And I close with a thought in mind...but want to see if anyone else thought of it that way before I comment....

Jim

So the rules don't take "Mark" designations in to account? Surely a MkI or MkII Meteor could be classed as vintage, while a MkV or VI is obviously out. Same with a gun like the Vulcan. The MkI went out of production in the early 80s, but the later MkIII (or MkII?) would still have been in production after the cut off date

[BeerJam]

So the rules don't take "Mark" designations in to account? Surely a MkI or MkII Meteor could be classed as vintage, while a MkV or VI is obviously out. Same with a gun like the Vulcan. The MkI went out of production in the early 80s, but the later MkIII (or MkII?) would still have been in production after the cut off date

I would suggest that any significant design changes, thus creating a distinct model version, should be considered as individual guns for the purpose of inclusion in the vintage classification.

Cheers, Mark