Valuation Threads --- A mixed blessing?

[Lakey]

Here is one for discussion, that I have been thinking about for a while.



Valuation threads are quite common on here at the moment, as people seem to be moving on a few of the surplus guns in their respective collections, and turning them into money. The recession seems to be biting deeper at the moment, and I guess people are being forced to sell some guns to realise their assets.

I for one regularly respond to these threads, giving people the benefit of my 25 years or so, of collecting experience. That experience is hard won over many years, scouring the auctions, mags and for sale columns,constantly watching for trends in current values on a regular basis etc etc etc.

However, lately I have been thinking that maybe I am shooting myself in the foot, by replying to these threads.

By replying, I am basically giving knowledge to sellers, which in turn may be ultimately encouraging them to sell at a higher price than they otherwise would have done? This is obviously to the detriment of other collectors on the lookout for a bargain ( ie some sap, who doesnt realise the value of what they have..)

An example of this is.

Bloke has a Meteor Mk1 which he wants to sell. He has no idea what it is worth, and maybe would have been happy with £50. I tell him it is worth £85 + post. He is very happy thankyou, and maybe sells for £85 + post.
The collectors forum is watched by non-members. All of a sudden, all Mk1 Meteors are worth " at least £85, because I read about it on the BBS"

Net result,(1) every potential seller is now armed with the knowledge that the Mk1 Meteor is worth at least £85, and (2)there are no more Bargain Mk1 Meteors to be had anywhere. finally (3) I get hate mail for educating the otherwise clueless airgun selling public, about what their guns are worth.

What does everybody else think about this, as I am sure we agree that it is good to help others, but not if it make your own future collecting aspirations harder to achieve.

I would be interested in your thoughs Ladies and gentlemen, as I am not sure what the answer is........

Yours in collecting.. and finding the odd bargain......

Lakey

PS, It is surely no coincidence, that most of the really big collectors of classic airguns in this country, do not reply to valuation threads, even though they know their worth only too well?????

[scirroco]

hi lakey
some good thoughts,but at the end of the day its a buyers market,its only worth what a buyer wants to pay,if the buyer isnt happy he wont buy ,and also a lot of stuff goes for vast sums far in excess of a typical valuations ,bsa centenarys for example
rgds scirroco

[The armourer]

Hiya Lakey,

In this day and age it is a sad reflection that what you write above is true, I have heard it from some people who are not members on this site. Although I have a bit of a large collection compared to some, I still cannot get a bargain at all so we all suffer.

[Lakey]

hi lakey
some good thoughts,but at the end of the day its a buyers market,its only worth what a buyer wants to pay,if the buyer isnt happy he wont buy ,and also a lot of stuff goes for vast sums far in excess of a typical valuations ,bsa centenarys for example
rgds scirroco

True, but I guess if the seller has some outlandish idea of what his gun is worth he will

(1) Ignore the advice he has been given on the valuation thread

(2) List his gun at a stupidly high price

(3) Fail to sell that gun

However if the seller really didnt have any clue as to the guns worth, he might

(1) Take the advice given on the valuation thread

(2) List the gun at the price given

(3) Sell the gun, as potential buyers who were unsure, might "buy into" the valuation given as it has come from some 'learned expert'

(4) The record of the sale further fuels the feeling that ' All Mk1 Meteors are worth £85 - Because look one has sold at that price on the BBS'

See what I mean.....? Difficult innit ????





Lakey

[DCL_dave]

Hi Lakey,

For what it is worth, I see absolutely nothing wrong giving a fellow an accurate valuation for an item...It's called being honest and having integrity!...and we all learn in the process! (I for one read your posts with great enthusiasm because I value your knowledge and experience and I'm eager to learn, so I'll take this oportunity to say thank you.)

Cheers,
Dave

[Andy001]

I had a phone call approx 3 weeks ago, some one wanting to sell a smk b2. With scope gun bag and pellets. Guess how much he wanted???

85

[Lakey]

Maybe a similar kind of thing is lying about the contents of your fridge freezer whan it goes bang?

You know....... Instead of the mouldy bread, Tin of corned beef, and half a tub of flora, All of a sudden you claim for Finest Rib of beef, Italian salami, Smk Salmon, Countless expensive cheeses, Wine, Hand pressed fruit juices etc etc etc

Net result, the insurance premiums go up, which encourages more people to make outlandish claims, and it all becomes a vicious circle, making it harder for everybody.

Maybe it would be better in the long run, not to reply to valuation threads, thereby letting the sellers decide their own prices, at the same time hoping that some of them make unfortunate blunders and unwittingly offer a bargain?
I think if we do that, society ( and this BBS) becomes a poorer place as a result.

Treat people the way you would want to be treated yourself. That is one of my motto's ?



Lakey

[mallyally]

reply to valuation questions /A a gun is worth what someone thinks it is (to them / buyer or seller )
B most people have a good idea what its worth before they post on here anyway
C you can easily make enemies that way / who needs that
realy its a waste of time asking as most of the people who reply have one of the guns in question and they would like it to be worth xxxx anyway
so as i said i NEVER give valuations

[Lakey]

Hi Lakey,

For what it is worth, I see absolutely nothing wrong giving a fellow an accurate valuation for an item...It's called being honest and having integrity!...and we all learn in the process! (I for one read your posts with great enthusiasm because I value your knowledge and experience and I'm eager to learn, so I'll take this oportunity to say thank you.)

Cheers,
Dave

Thank you Dave. That is very kind of you to say that.

( Chq's in the post )

All the best

Lakey

[Lakey]

I guess that other thing to bear in mind is that any valuation is a very subjective thing, and that the BSA Meteor MK1 may be worth £85 to me because I (1) Dont really rate the gun (2) I already have five of them in very good condition
Whereas, the bloke who only needs an example of a BSA Mk1 Meteor, to complete his complete collection of "meteors through the ages" might suggest it was worth £120

Who is right, and who is wrong?

Answer is nobody... Maybe it is up to the seller to decide?

[Lakey]

reply to valuation questions /A a gun is worth what someone thinks it is (to them / buyer or seller )
B most people have a good idea what its worth before they post on here anyway C you can easily make enemies that way / who needs that
realy its a waste of time asking as most of the people who reply have one of the guns in question and they would like it to be worth xxxx anyway
so as i said i NEVER give valuations

Maybe they got that 'good idea' from other valuation threads on the BBS

[mallyally]

Maybe they got that 'good idea' from other valuation threads on the BBS

so why ask the question
unless they have had it in the loft for twenty years surely they remember what they paid for it
i have seen these type of threads posted by someone who only bought the thing a month ago / on here so are they asking if its value has gone up or down

[Garvin]

Andy I don't think you should reproach yourself for being courteous and helpful. On the contrary - this section is the richer for your willingness to share your knowledge. Maybe it's true that a collector starting out to build his collection might not get a bargain from time to time. But if a seller who is ignorant of the value of his heirloom shows the initiative to get on the BBS and ask the question, I reckon he's earned the right to a reply if someone is generous enough to give it.

[Mark D]

Interesting dilemma you have raised Andy. I for one have asked for valuations on some of my guns and where appropriate will continue to do so! The reason is simple, having purchased some of my stuff over 25 years ago and it not being something I can find by doing a search - my BSF M20 Match for example then it's nice to get an idea of 'current' worth. Of course an estimation of worth, does not guarantee a sale and some items can take months to sell, why some pieces, that may fill a slot in someone's collection get snapped up. Yet some rare items take a while, there was a Tell 3 on here several months back, probably the only one ever to be offered for sale on the BBs in it's history and it took a few days to sell!

The whole valuation process is fraught anyway, as condition is so critical to value on common place guns, then add in rare items, transition models, scarce calibre's, box's. literature, accessories and it can radically alter the price.

As one who has stopped being an 'active' collector, by that I mean getting up at 5am and driving 150 miles to a fair, 150 miles back - with nothing! Or racing to the newsagents to buy the comics a soon as it opened, so I could scan the ads for the 'bargains' - once drove 100 miles to look at the most beaten up pre-war senior that I have ever seen, which had been described as 'mint' - most of us have been there!

Yes, you may end up missing out on a gun that the owner would have parted with for £50 instead of £80 or £100, but does it really matter in the great scheme of things? I think not, there's more to collecting than just getting the best deals. My BSA Merlin came to me for free, by a neighbour who had seen me shooting with an old BSA mod D in the back garden and thought I may like them, yes there were two! as his son had left home and he did not want them cluttering up his house.

So for those that like to offer up there knowledge and experience I say may it long continue and those that don't, well that's there choice - good job we are not all wound the same!

[Garvin]

I guess that other thing to bear in mind is that any valuation is a very subjective thing, and that the BSA Meteor MK1 may be worth £85 to me because I (1) Dont really rate the gun (2) I already have five of them in very good condition
Whereas, the bloke who only needs an example of a BSA Mk1 Meteor, to complete his complete collection of "meteors through the ages" might suggest it was worth £120

Who is right, and who is wrong?

Answer is nobody... Maybe it is up to the seller to decide?

Exactly, so any valuations we may give are subject to the fact that it's only a personal opinion. But the opinion of someone who reguarly scans sales on the BBS, auction hammer prices, small ads etc is worth a whole lot more than the opinion of someone who doesn't.