Valuation Threads --- A mixed blessing?

[Lakey]

A couple of thoughts occur to me here:
Firstly it seems that many of the requests for valuations are regarding fairly moderrn and mundane air guns - ie 1970's BSA Airsporter.
For goodness sake how much does anybody think such a gun is going to be worth, in average condition, it ain't going to be a sum to be able to retire on!

Secondly, as I think another mentioned, in my experience most folk have a pretty damn good idea what their 20 year old Slavia pistol is worth, and really are only looking for confirmation - or dare I mention it looking for a 'dutch' auction to start up? Perhaps I'm being cruel here?

Thirdly, and most importantly, giving a valuation on something that you haven't seen, and based on a woolly description, is a complete waste of everybody's time, and could ultimately just be plain misleading - both to the seller and a potential buyer.
Condition is everything, the same gun could vary by 500% in value if it was mint compared to merely average.
Most people, especially if they are keen to sell a gun, can't offer an accurate description to save their life, so any subsequent valuations start from the wrong premise straightaway.

Lastly a valuation might be the 'right' one in most people's eyes, but then if a guy comes along who just happens to want that particular item, he might pay considerably more than the 'right' price - and be happy for it.
Does that mean the true value is that, or what?

See what I mean, it is a minefield of inexactitude. Let the seller work it out himself, he probably knows anyway, and if it is a rare item then he should take it to a specialist who can actually see the thing, warts and all, and then appraise it!
Anything else is pie in the sky.

I agree with the idea that most peoples descriptions are sometimes way off the mark. That is the reason why I always give a range of prices, starting with a 'Rough as hell' price, then continuing through average, and good, right the way up to very good.

So for example

BSA Mk2 Airsporter

£70 for a rough one up to £160 for a very good one. Mint ones £190 upwards

That way people can then decide which description best fits their own gun, and if they really cant decide, then they can always pick a middle of the road price.

So for the Airsporter, maybe offer it at £140 to be safe. If it doesnt sell in a week, lower the price by £15, and see where you go from there.

By doing that I think you avoid the kind of person that thinks "all Mk2 Airsporters are worth £160+ , as clearly they are not

In the Blue Book of Airguns, they are very very strict about values, and any chewed up screws or missing finish, would send the price crashing down.

Take the Airsporter, if it say had a polished trigger block/trigger guard ( all too common on Airsporters) then if that gun would have made £150 with a normal trigger block, it only make £90 witha polished one. Now I dont believe the majority guys/gals on the BBS, would take too much notice of things like that, and I know most sellers wouldn't put up with a 40% cut in price for something some would see as an improving feature?? However in America condition is EVERYTHING !!!


ATB

Lakey






Lakey

[Garvin]

A couple of thoughts occur to me here:
Firstly it seems that many of the requests for valuations are regarding fairly moderrn and mundane air guns - ie 1970's BSA Airsporter.
For goodness sake how much does anybody think such a gun is going to be worth, in average condition, it ain't going to be a sum to be able to retire on!

Secondly, as I think another mentioned, in my experience most folk have a pretty damn good idea what their 20 year old Slavia pistol is worth, and really are only looking for confirmation - or dare I mention it looking for a 'dutch' auction to start up? Perhaps I'm being cruel here?

Thirdly, and most importantly, giving a valuation on something that you haven't seen, and based on a woolly description, is a complete waste of everybody's time, and could ultimately just be plain misleading - both to the seller and a potential buyer.
Condition is everything, the same gun could vary by 500% in value if it was mint compared to merely average.
Most people, especially if they are keen to sell a gun, can't offer an accurate description to save their life, so any subsequent valuations start from the wrong premise straightaway.

Lastly a valuation might be the 'right' one in most people's eyes, but then if a guy comes along who just happens to want that particular item, he might pay considerably more than the 'right' price - and be happy for it.
Does that mean the true value is that, or what?

See what I mean, it is a minefield of inexactitude. Let the seller work it out himself, he probably knows anyway, and if it is a rare item then he should take it to a specialist who can actually see the thing, warts and all, and then appraise it!
Anything else is pie in the sky.

I agree with much of the above but I don't think valuation is always so inexact a science as to be altogether pointless. There are occasions when someone posts decent pics of a gun they intend to sell which make it possible to glean a reasonable idea of its condition. While of course it's impossible to pin down an exact value on a given day, if you've seen several similar guns sell in the recent past that information might at least provide a range between which the value probably lies.

[Airsporter1st]

I agree with the idea that most peoples descriptions are sometimes way off the mark. That is the reason why I always give a range of prices, starting with a 'Rough as hell' price, then continuing through average, and good, right the way up to very good.

So for example

BSA Mk2 Airsporter

£70 for a rough one up to £160 for a very good one. Mint ones £190 upwards

That way people can then decide which description best fits their own gun, and if they really cant decide, then they can always pick a middle of the road price.

So for the Airsporter, maybe offer it at £140 to be safe. If it doesnt sell in a week, lower the price by £15, and see where you go from there.

By doing that I think you avoid the kind of person that thinks "all Mk2 Airsporters are worth £160+ , as clearly they are not

In the Blue Book of Airguns, they are very very strict about values, and any chewed up screws or missing finish, would send the price crashing down.

Take the Airsporter, if it say had a polished trigger block/trigger guard ( all too common on Airsporters) then if that gun would have made £150 with a normal trigger block, it only make £90 witha polished one. Now I dont believe the majority guys/gals on the BBS, would take too much notice of things like that, and I know most sellers wouldn't put up with a 40% cut in price for something some would see as an improving feature?? However in America condition is EVERYTHING !!!


ATB

Lakey






Lakey

Yes they are!

[Airsporter1st]

He`s a tight old git, who won`t let anything out of his grip unless You have paid for it, so while You have a good suggestion, it would not work.
After seeing my truly mint Super Tornado, he knows only too well that his gun is not mint, or fairly priced. It is now a case of him being bloody minded and stubburn, and not wanting to lose face over the deal!!!

I know the feeling - I paid way over the odds for an immaculate gun from a similar tight old git. Problem was I really wanted the gun!!!!

[Griff1968]

Hi Lakey, as a fairly new collector, I do find the advice on the the BBS priceless, my close friend "Fatman" Dave, is a very good source of information, and what he doesn't know the BBS is sure to to provide, it helps us novice collectors not to get caught out paying over the odds for a relatively common gun for example and also keeps you alert for potential bargains, whilst not catching someone unawares.
One example we saw was a pre-war BSA owned by the seller's grandfather originally in an a local Airms Fair, in Brecon going for the princely sum of around £25 - this gun was obviously used but very lightly marked with good bluing and a very good condition stock - Dave to his credit, instead of snapping the rifle up, advised the guy to keep it as a bit of family history.
To me, the good guys should always win, keep up the good work, I for one, fully appreciate your help and advice.

Cheers

Wayne

[barryeye]

The Antique Road Show has a lot to answer for. In my humble opinion people with collectables but lacking knowledge nearly always over value their possessions. If a seller is aware that you are a collector with some experience they always treat your offer with caution regardless of how good it is. I am also guilty of this. If I see a collector of renown after something at an auction I take that bit extra interest in it. If he wants it it must be good.

I see the good people on this site as friends of various degrees. And as friends I expect and give honesty in my opinions. Withholding information from a friend for monetary gain is a small but none the less dishonest act. I’m no goody two shoes but I have a real problem with ripping people off. Dealers, gun shops and those who choose to sell at auction don’t in my book count as real people but those seeking honest guidance and education do. One of my few rules is that if you want a fair appraisal of an item don’t seek it from a person who may want it. So if you are interested in purchasing an item you have been asked to value perhaps you should advise the seller to seek a second opinion.
Just out of interest I recently purchased an air rifle from a very knowledgeable collector for a quarter of its real value and he knew it. I knew he knew and I told him so. He said there was more to collecting then making a profit and he knew I would appreciate the rifle in question. I’ve now got a rifle I really could not afford to own and a new friend.

Lakey and his ilk are the lifeblood of this group. And while they might cut their own throats once in a while with their honesty they have sure made a lot of friends. Good on you lads.

Barry

[Gambo]

I know the feeling - I paid way over the odds for an immaculate gun from a similar tight old git. Problem was I really wanted the gun!!!!

So You were held to ransom on it!!!
He (Tight Git) did exactly that to another club member recently, over a Daystate PH6 SE. The tight git aquired it as one of three guns ( a rapid, the PH6, and an Fx2000) that he bought as a job lot for £500. He took great pleasure boasting to everyone about what a cracking bargain he had got.

But when it came to selling the PH6, he was very generously offered £500!!!!!! WELL over the odds, just because the member was desperate to have it.. Tight Git worked on this poor guys desperation, saying £600 or no sale!! Member said "Meet me half way at £550?". Tight Git said No!! "OK, says member, meet me half way between my £550 offer and Your £600 asking price, so £575.?" No says Tight git. A final offer of £580 was made, to which Tight git said "Give me another £5 and You can have it!" It was like he was doing the guy a favour by selling it to him for £585!!!!!!!!! IMO, the original offer of £500 was very generous, and much more than the gun was worth, but Tight Git just had to win, and squeeze every single penny possible out of this poor guy. He worked on this guy`s desire to have the gun, to his own financial advantage.

If he thinks he is going do the same to me over the relum, he can think again!!!

[DCL_dave]

So You were held to ransom on it!!!
He (Tight Git) did exactly that to another club member recently, over a Daystate PH6 SE. The tight git aquired it as one of three guns ( a rapid, the PH6, and an Fx2000) that he bought as a job lot for £500. He took great pleasure boasting to everyone about what a cracking bargain he had got.

But when it came to selling the PH6, he was very generously offered £500!!!!!! WELL over the odds, just because the member was desperate to have it.. Tight Git worked on this poor guys desperation, saying £600 or no sale!! Member said "Meet me half way at £550?". Tight Git said No!! "OK, says member, meet me half way between my £550 offer and Your £600 asking price, so £575.?" No says Tight git. A final offer of £580 was made, to which Tight git said "Give me another £5 and You can have it!" It was like he was doing the guy a favour by selling it to him for £585!!!!!!!!! IMO, the original offer of £500 was very generous, and much more than the gun was worth, but Tight Git just had to win, and squeeze every single penny possible out of this poor guy. He worked on this guy`s desire to have the gun, to his own financial advantage.

Blimey! that guy sounds like a right tosser, think I'de take great pleasure in telling him exactly where to stick his overpriced tat!

If he thinks he is going do the same to me over the relum, he can think again!!!

I should hope not!...ain't no Relum worth £600!...not even all of 'em!

[wesley]

Honesty is the best policy I think, like buying houses or selling cars.....ok maybe not selling cars then!.
Everyone should get what they deserve for what they want to sell, and if they're desperate for the money or just want to make someones day then they can underprice it accordingly!.

As for sellers trying to get the best possible price - thats life, and equally if a buyer is desperate or stupid enough not to do his research then thats his fault.

Some people assume because we all have an interest in the same sport we should be doing each other favours - while that's fine n dandy some have a different moralistic point of view.
something that springs to mind is me jogging back from gym earlier, I passed a 'fellow' jogger and smiled - just like homer simpson or was it a smurf? anyway, she looked straight through me.....

What did I hear earlier?, when Since David Attenborough has been presenting television the population of the earth has doubled! - too many people for a man to call 'brother'

Anyway i'm off down the town centre to do some human pest control!

KIDDING!

[Ulverston]

Hi,
this has been a very interesting read! I ask for the value for rifles/pistols regularily as I have no idea myself and I get people I know bringing them too me. I show them the replies on this site and generally they are very pleased and do often sell. I suppose they can see for themselves what their item is valued at. I like to think Ive sold a few rifles for people that would not have otherwise been available to collectors so I think that this service is useful...

[Lakey]

Yes they are!

You obviously haven't seen some of the rusted and vandalised relics that I have.!!

( Note to self - Damn - should have bought those relics up and flogged them to Airsporter 1st
for £160 a piece!!

[Airsporter1st]

You obviously haven't seen some of the rusted and vandalised relics that I have.!!

( Note to self - Damn - should have bought those relics up and flogged them to Airsporter 1st
for £160 a piece!!

I asked for that!

Seriously though, I love them; enough to pay top dollar for a really good one (when I have the money available) - but not enough to buy the relics off you for £160 each I'm afraid.

[lodmoor]

Um, at the end of the day valuation = honesty on the part of the knowing.

Price paid = how deperately the buyer wants it.

How many of you are going to fund your pension on your collection?

67 years old, over 90 pistols and still seeking, oh, and working oh, and don't see the collection as equity.

[Airsporter1st]

Um, at the end of the day valuation = honesty on the part of the knowing.

Price paid = how deperately the buyer wants it.

How many of you are going to fund your pension on your collection?

67 years old, over 90 pistols and still seeking, oh, and working oh, and don't see the collection as equity.

On that cheery note I'm just off to slash my wrists.

[copperjacket]

I think the advice provided is excellent especially to those who are new to the sport or not in the know. Please keep up the good work.