Gallery gun

[Garvin]

Check out this very interesting coil spring-powered gallery gun. It sold on eGun.de on the weekend.

It's missing its cocking mechanism. The current consensus is that it had some sort of cocking tool that fitted through the butt plate and contacted the rod and hook you can see (maybe that used some sort of foot stirrup employing the weight of the user) and the gun was then pulled firmly upwards until the sear engaged.

Any better ideas?

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery....gun/#post-4324

[micky2]

What a strange cocking method. my guess is it has it been modified at some stage to take the round coil springs that look quite modern. and they have not been ground down on the ends just cut off. l would think it would take some power to pull those springs.

[Garvin]

What a strange cocking method. my guess is it has it been modified at some stage to take the round coil springs that look quite modern. and they have not been ground down on the ends just cut off. l would think it would take some power to pull those springs.

Fair points, Mick.

I agree, the cocking effort looks scary! Maybe the cocking tool gave some sort of mechanical advantage?

If not coil springs originally then what do you think was there? Volute springs maybe?

[ptdunk]

I was thinking maybe an earlier flat section type of spring as per John G's post of a similar gallery gun?:

http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....ht=strike+pump

Maybe they were quite weak hence the 3 springs?

Matt

[ccdjg]

An amazing gun, with regard to its unique mechanism, build quality and age.

IMO the springs are most likely to be original for the reason that they are made of brass. Brass was a much more common material for springs in the 18th and 19th century than it is today (the cocking rod return spring on the 1870's Eureka pistol was made of brass for example). If anyone in more recent times had wanted to replace the original springs, I cannot see why they would replace them with brass ones when steel ones would be so much more readily available and also more effective.

I doubt that this gun would ever have had volute springs as they only tended to be used when maximum power in a limited space was required. There is plenty of space to accommodate compresssed coil springs in this gun, and high power would not be desirable because of its method of cocking.

The rear sight protective tube is interesting and I have never come across anything like it before on 18th-19th century gallery guns. I wonder what its purpose was?

The gun must also have had a peep sight judging from the brass mounting peg on the stock. This is similar to the peep sight mounting on my strike-pump rifle of the same period. Mine also has the normal open front and rear sights present, and the rear sight blade can be folded down when the peep sight is in use. Unfortunately you can't make out the rear sight clearly on this gun to see if it also has this feature.








It is interesting to compare the narrow brass springs on this gun with the massive steel one in mine. There is no way you could compress that just with a foot stirrup cocking aid!






I can't believe that the unique triple-spring gun sold for only £650 on eGun - and the seller was prepared to post to the UK. I am still kicking myself for missing it !! It's got to be worth a couple of thousand at least.

[micken]

Possibly had an original cocking lever that located on the cylinder on the toe of the stock. Using the cylinder as a fulcrum with the handle moving towards the underside of the forend?

Just a thought!

[ptdunk]

I can't believe that the unique triple-spring gun sold for only £650 on eGun - and the seller was prepared to post to the UK. I am still kicking myself for missing it !! It's got to be worth a couple of thousand at least.[/B]

Damn... I had been watching this as I thought in might be treasure.
Got outbid at the last second.

Should have bid more but wasn’t 100% sure it was original and don’t know enough about them. ..... I had dreams of getting it up and running and taking it out for a vintage comp.

I thought they looked like brass springs but thought they’d be too soft. Maybe why it needed three of them.

Ah well, the one that got away!

Matt

[frakor]

My guess is, it had a 2 part cocking lever in a "T"shape.
1 part going into the stock to grab the piston stem and the other part rotating on the knob on the buttpad.

==================
Frank

[frakor]

Something like this.




===================
Frank

[magicesperanto]

Yes that makes sense, the brass bit does look a thing of purpose.

[ptdunk]

Something like this.




===================
Frank

The hole in the butt plate is pretty narrow, so direction of pull would have to be pretty linear. The T-Bar would pivot the ‘pulling’ part of the bar down a bit no?

That rolled scroll detail on the bottom of the butt pad seems quite common on bellows guns, although it as chunky as this one.

[ccdjg]

That's a great idea Frank, and it helps to explain the curious knob on the butt plate, which as a cosmetic embellishment always looked out of place to me. With a suitably long arm on your predicted cocking device you would certainly get a much bigger mehanical advantage than a direct pull action against a foot-stirrup device.

If that gun were mine, the first thing I would do would be to make one of your cocking units and test it out. It would be nice for the historical record if the new owner of the gun would do that and report on the results. I don't suppose this very likely though and the gun it is probably destined to be non-functioning wall hanger that we will never hear of again.

This gun is so unique, it really deserves to be in a museum.

[micky2]

Fair points, Mick.

I agree, the cocking effort looks scary! Maybe the cocking tool gave some sort of mechanical advantage?

If not coil springs originally then what do you think was there? Volute springs maybe?

l would have gone along with some type of volute springs. which if l remember right my bellows gun as that type fitted. but having read what John had to say about brass springs. which l didn't know that they were made. would make sence. has he points out they so much softer, and would make it so much easier to cock. it would be nice to see the gun in the flesh so has to make a better judgement.

[Garvin]

The hole in the butt plate is pretty narrow, so direction of pull would have to be pretty linear. The T-Bar would pivot the ‘pulling’ part of the bar down a bit no?

That rolled scroll detail on the bottom of the butt pad seems quite common on bellows guns, although it as chunky as this one.

Fascinating stuff!

Could the cocking tool have had a floating square collar that fitted closely into the hole in the buttplate, and the T-bar lever run freely within that collar, mitigating this extra friction on the edge of the hole (and which is not evident)?

PS the scroll knob on the buttplate does look overly chunky, but the shape could be decorative it seems to me, because there's nothing to suggest directly that it was involved in leverage. As John says, you'd have to 'trial and error' it to find out, but sadly we'll probably never know - unless perhaps it comes back on the market pronto, properly priced this time...

[Garvin]

Rapidly contradicting myself above...

Does this close-up of the knob show some possible evidence of a cocking tool bearing on it, perhaps?