Non-firing replica: how defined?

[Jim McArthur]

A UK shooter asked if I could find him a non-firing, replica flintlock pistol that he could use as a wall hanger.

One piece I came across was advertised as being non-firing: but the only difference between it and the firing version is that the vent hole is not drilled.
If you were to drill it out, it would be a FAC firearm.

So my question is: how would UK law define this particular piece? Is it treated like a dectivated firearm or a non-firing replica? Or is it a controlled firearm?

Jim

[Adam77K]

I would be interested to know too, as I came across similar pieces on a US site and quite fancied one.

I'm no legal expert but my guess is it would be ok, as in its current state it's not capable of being fired and is therefore a non-firing replica. It never has been capable of firing therefore it's not a deactivated firearm. The original firearm of which it's a replica was designed before 1873 (think that's the date) so it's not a RIF (realistic imitation firearm) under the VCRA.

[Jim McArthur]

Hello, Adam: great to see you here in the Charcoal section! If it turns out you're correct, I'd be glad to help you obtain any such item from the US.

My initial reaction - and this is PURE guess and speculation - was the opposite of yours. My logic was that since it isn't a once-operable firearm that's been properly deactivated in accordance with legal standards, but rather a firearm intended for use, but just lacking that last step: the law would consider it an operable firearm.

However, the more I think about it, the more I'm inclining toward your position.

I think one important point to consider is, what would the law consider acceptable in order to deactivate a once fully-functional, modern replica flintlock pistol? IF (and I'm only saying "if") sealing the vent hole would suffice, then I can't see any legal distinction between a pistol where the vent hole's been permanently sealed, versus one where it was never opened.

Also, UK law - and UK law is in a sense more lenient, in another sense harsher, than US law in this respect - seems to draw a distinction between the inherent capabilities of a firearm, versus the owner's intended use of it.

Case in point: in the Uk, you can own an antique Colt Navy 1851 cap and ball revolver without a license. BUT, if you intend to shoot it, it must be held on a FAC.

Similarly: you can own a cartridge pistol in an obsolete caliber without a license. BUT, if you manage to scrounge up an antique cartridge or two that fits it, your act of keeping pistol and cartridge(s) together is held to be evidence of your intend to fire it: so you'd need to have it on FAC, which unfortunately you'd not be likely to do.

To the US mentality, this is all too tricky! Here, we'd say the gun is either controlled, or it isn't. Whether you intend to hunt rabbits with it, hang it on your wall, or punch holes in paper with it, is irrelevant.

In the examples I gave above, the Colt Navy is simply unregulated (under federal law: state law can vary) at time of purchase. The obsolete cartridge pistol is unregulared if made before 1899, regulated if made later.

Simple and straightforward.

Jim

[Jim McArthur]

No other opinions?

Jim

[Adam77K]

This is the site I found and they seem to think they can ship to the UK with no problems.
http://www.militaryheritage.com/pistol6.htm
That's the one I want - beautiful.

Or this
Or maybe second one on this page

[Jim McArthur]

Of course, the real problem would be not for the exporter, but for the UK importer / prospective owner.

If I were you, Adam, I'd check with an RFD, or with your local FEO, and see what they think.

Jim

[loach369]

Re 'inert' black powder muzzle loading pistols.

If the vent is simply not drilled through and this alone renders it 'inert' then legally speaking it is readily convertable and therefore a Section 1 firearm. (Readily convertable means using common house hold tools ie a drill and HSS bit)

The 'inert' mostly Indian made replica muzzleloaders sold by Kranks etc here in the UK have a combination of welded in nipples/undrilled vent holes and either hardened steel pins inserted at the breech end and/or the lower section of the barrel hidden by the forestock completely milled away. This would require the machining of a new barrel and this means it is not readily convertable and therefore legal to sell.

[Smokeless Coal]

It is an awkward situation.
I started to build a wheellock with the intention of adding to my FAC firearms. A long project I want to take a long time on, probably years, so a variation too early would be pointless because my FLO likes to see the slot filled in the lifetime of my FAC.

So at what point does it become a firearm, is the trigger or parts of the lock component parts. Talking to someone who had built one before I was told not until the vent is drilled does it become a firearm.

We can buy kits from Track of the Wolf in the States but have to be sure the breech plug is not drilled otherwise theres all sorts of paperwork involved.