Crime & Security Bill

[Ormicron]

I must live under a mushroom, I have only just found out about the Bill going through parliament known as 'the crime and security bill 2009'. I was taken a back when I read the proposals, no longer can we leave a rifle stood in the corner of a room, have one down the shed etc. The bill proposes that we must keep our toys locked up away from under 18's. the relentless turn of the state screw makes a mockery of our view that we live in a free society, free for who?

Does anyone else have a view on this legislation?

Ormicron

[weebster]

first i've heard of it,i take it you mean air rifles as fire arms and shot guns already fall into this 'lock up out of sight in an ugly steel box'
government won't be happy until we all march to their tune

[Sam99]

Hello ,

Most of us, if not all, keep our collections in a safe place, i.e. locked away from children. Wardrobes, cupboards, even gun cabinets.
The odd accident has happened as we all know. The muppet who keeps a loaded Air rifle / Pistol under the bed etc ect …………..
“Sorry, I forgot it was loaded “…………….
Unfortunately, in the Nanny State in which we live, we cannot rely on Common Sense to prevail.

Some time back, I commented on those members who list their collections on the bottom each post. I don’t agree with this. Why advertise to All and Sundry what’s in your home??
Some members agreed with me but most members didn’t.
But, that’s their choice.
My thoughts??
A change in the Airgun Legislation is around the corner and change for the worse

Sam

[kash2001]

I agree with a lot of what Sam says, all my airguns are in fac rated gun cabinets in an alarmed room, but I have 3 kids and live in an area which is not so secure shall we say.

I would never leave my guns out in a corner of a room just because, but I think people should have the right do to so if the situation allows, ie in a locked room etc.

I hate the idea of nanny state and eventually it will drive people away from this sport, when I was a kid I went to a gun club local to us, it was a great intro, you were taken under the wing of one of the more experienced members and shown the ropes - the does & don't and the we'll hang you if you break this law LoL but it was relaxed and informal and you felt at home there.

After many years under the water later a groups of friends on mine were interested in looking into shooting, so I popped down to discuss this with the gun club, and boy had it changed. Air gun was mainly shoot there now rather than cartridge weapons. I was told we had to do a "course" before membership was allowed and no the new people couldn't come in just to have a try to see if they liked it - Health & Safety or something ??

Point is none of them joined, all the paperwork form filling and an idea of a course before even being allowed to go into the course just put them right off. Not sure this is all Gov'mt interference but I would be surprised.

Our rights are no longer free - free speech hasn't been around for years - sorry I'm getting on my Victor Meldrew hobby horse here, I'll step down now.

One point with reference to links of pics of gun on signatures. I can see Sams point, but I find guns like fine art beautiful to look at "Go figure"

Some of the old guns/collectibles ,are hard to get pics of, without members posting on here their collections. Our town has about 40,000 people in it. Unless we post our address it'll be quite difficult to locate some of these guns.

And in most instances, criminals want shotguns and heavy caliber guns. Seems such a shame were getting to the point we can not share our collections with others even on a gun bbs anymore.

I'm feeling depressed now, going of to buy another gun cabinet just to cheer myself up LoL - anyone got one ?

ATB

[Powderfinger]

This security legislation will start out "reasonable" then the screw will be tightened on us....It will end with compulsory alarms, security cabinets and conviction if your gun is stolen. Shooting sports will eventually be almost legislated out of existence through "death by a thousand cuts".

[gingernut]

The safety proposals seem to arise from a number of family and child related tragedies directly caused by adult failures to protect children from their own inexperience.
The proposal now means that if you are foolish enough to allow your child or a friends child access to an airgun and a child is killed or injured as a result of your stupidity you can be prosecuted.
So you are grieving over such an incident and having to learn to live with the guilt but hey the Government think the right thing to do is fine you as well.
Knee jerk legislation at its best.

[harvey_s]

I fear that more draconian legislation may well be inevitable, especially when those in the know keep insisiting that they cannot tell us (the general public) what those in power are thinking about doing in advance and just keep telling us that there are people working on our behalf....something that has never sat easy with me as usually when they don't want to tell the public up front it's because someone is planning to line their own pockets and doesn't want anyone upetting the apple cart....

But to quote Charlton Heston..."I have only five words for you: From my cold, dead hands."

[weebster]

sam has a valid point about advertiseing what's in your house etc,mine will be in a purpose built rack(lockable) in my front room,in there along with the rifles is.....
1x yappy medium size colliexlab/ret
1x 5.5 stone doberman.....she is able to jump 6ft from a sitting position,is very protective of her space where strangers are concerned and would have no trouble hanging off somebody's face!
and if the dobie ain't bad enough....there's the wife to get past as well
not to mention door and window alarms,a very well enclosed back garden as well

[Ormicron]

The point that occurs to me is that If you have no juveniles in your home does locking up when you go out adequate security. If the burgular is over 18 as an offence happened? I think the point is that to comply with the law we will have to take the same security measures as those required for shotguns. How do we oppose the legislation?

Ormicron

[DCL_dave]

I must live under a mushroom, I have only just found out about the Bill going through parliament known as 'the crime and security bill 2009'. I was taken a back when I read the proposals, no longer can we leave a rifle stood in the corner of a room, have one down the shed etc. The bill proposes that we must keep our toys locked up away from under 18's. the relentless turn of the state screw makes a mockery of our view that we live in a free society, free for who?

Does anyone else have a view on this legislation?

Ormicron

Hi Ormicron,

Thanks, do you know when this new law comes into effect?...has it been passed yet?



...As for folk listing their gear in their sigs...I'm guilty of that! ...but I don't really see a problem because it's my stuff and I'll talk about it if I like...I ain't scared

[gingernut]

It is only a proposal/bill as yet. Imagine Brown & co have a lot more stuff to deal with at present.
As drafted if you do not have under 18s in your home I cant see that you need to take other than reasonable precautions as you should now.
It would really be outrageous if we were to be held responsible for the actions of young burglars.That doesnt seem to be the point of the proposal but you never know!

[Herpquest]

I am sure that the Bill will go through unchallenged. It is more of a safety issue, not only to children - if you have any, but for the general public if your treasured possessions should get stolen in a burglary
Most of the pcp pistols are identical ( to the general public) to firearms these days and could easily be mistaken for one if used during the commission of criminal offence.
Air rifle and pistols are no longer cheap, so it is sound advice to keep them in a secure gun cabinet/safe.
ATB Eric

[steve medlock]

Air weapons

11. The Bill amends the Firearms Act 1968 to create a new offence of failing to take reasonable precautions to prevent a person under the age of 18 from having unauthorised access to an air weapon.

You can monitor progress here:

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/...dsecurity.html

I suspect that we will have to wait to see how ACPO interpret 'reasonable precautions' unless this is amended to be more specific. Personally I don't really want to start locking away air guns. The cabinet space would be vast..

[Herpquest]

You sound like 'Job' or ex 'Job' Steve! ATB Eric

[mrto]

I must live under a mushroom, I have only just found out about the Bill going through parliament known as 'the crime and security bill 2009'. I was taken a back when I read the proposals, no longer can we leave a rifle stood in the corner of a room, have one down the shed etc. The bill proposes that we must keep our toys locked up away from under 18's. the relentless turn of the state screw makes a mockery of our view that we live in a free society, free for who?

Does anyone else have a view on this legislation?

Ormicron

This is the type of interference in to peoples private lives and passtimes that socialist governments exel at.The sooner Brown and his cronies are removed from office the better,if by some fluke they remain in power our sport will go the same way as Air Cartridge airguns and rifles did and once again expect no compensation!!!