Commonly encountered faults on airguns

[Lakey]

Hi All,
Just thought I would start a thread about commonly encountered faults in collectable air rifles and pistols. As I go around viewing old airguns I see the same recurring faults on a few of the guns I find, so I thought I would list some of them, to help others during their airgun collecting travels.
My main area of interest involves pre-war BSA underlevers, and as these are very simple in their design, there is not too much that can go wrong with them, however here are a few faults that I have seen

Wrong Sights – BSA Cadet and AirsporterMk I sights fitted in place of the original sights. Earliest BSA’s have a low rearsight with a small elevation wheel. Improved Model D’s should have the No.10 rearsight, which is wider and has a larger offset elevation wheel, and the post WWI ‘Standards’ have a high rearsight and foresight fitted. The rearsight on these overhangs the barrel, and has a solid centrally aligned elevation wheel. If the elevation wheel has a hole and spring in the centre, it is the wrong one.

Gun fails to cock – Trigger and sear either broken, or missing or clogged up with old grease and dirt. I have also encountered return springs missing on the trigger. Early pre-WWI guns had a one piece trigger, with trigger adjustment through the trigger guard.Occasionally the trigger adjustment screw has been screwed in too far so that the sear fails to engage. Back off the trigger screw and retry.

Wrong screws and bolts - Check screws for later replacements. Check that screws match and patination is the same etc. Original replacements are hard to find and often expensive.

Stock Damage –Steel locating peg in trigger block often found rusted, leading to split stock at the top of the pistol grip. Missing stock bolt cover- Very difficult to source original ones, and time consuming to carve replacements.Water damage where guns have been stood up in damp conditions.

Low on power/poor compression – Often encountered dry piston seals on these guns,and seals which have disintegrated over time. Also look for foreign objects imbedded in the face of the piston, leading to a poor seal. Broken springs or wrong replacement springs also found.Occasionally the screw securing the piston seal to the piston shears off leaving the piston washer separated from the steel piston.

Underlever does not lock – The button catch on the inderlever can become bunged up with dry grease and dirt preventing the button working. Also the spring loaded plunger on the early bayonet underlevers can also become jammed with dirt and grot. I also once came across a later end button underlever that would not engage with the catch post because the end of the post had become bent and the undercut had become distorted preventing the catch operating.


I have never encountered a BSA underlever with a mis-aligned tap, however I have come across this fault with several Webley MkIII’s.
Lastely because all BSA underlever components are readily interchangeable, I have often found ‘S’ and ‘T’ prefix .177’s and I have also seen an ‘L’ prefix .22! not to mention many wrong stocks for a given model type ( eg a post 1919 style rounded stock on a ‘The BSA Air Rifle’ dating from 1906) so watch out and consult books to check how the gun should look.
Has anyone else got any experience of regular faults they have found on other collectable airguns??

ATB

Lakey

[mikewareing]

I once got a 1929 Standard light with the earlier, lower, lincoln jeffreys sights fitted, also a cadet major with a later trigger guard

Mike

[Lakey]

Hi Mike, Thanks for your reply. BSA's seem to be particularly prone to this mix and match of bits and pieces.

Other faults I have come across are cocking faults in webley pistols, due to bent barrels, and worn sear/trigger parts leading to guns going off without warning etc.

what other faults have you come across in your collecting travels......?

[pennineway.fswo]

Early Airsporters with loading tap levers bent towards cylinder (from dropping gun) preventing the tap fully closing and hence giving awful accuracy

Ball bearings embedded in leather piston heads of Webley Mk3's

Lost ball bearings of Airsporter loading taps preventing positive opening and closing of tap.

Completely disintegrated /burnt leather piston washers on Cadet Majors and other rifles with leather washers.
Worn trigger sears on same gun causing rifle to fire on closing/lock up of the barrel.

Cracks in stocks of Mk1 and 2 Airsporters around the grip and rear of trigger area. Many of these cracks are small and not noticed by owners, but will propagate over time if not repaired.

Damaged rifling in old rifles caused by the owners shooting nails, ball bearings or anything else that would go into the breech. This damage can often be seen when looking down the rifling. It can also be found by pushing a pellet down the bore with a brass or plastic rod. The pellet sticks at damaged area and the pellet skirt and head show irregular marks when pushed right through. Usually this damage does not affect short range accuracy too much.

Bent barrels on Webley Mk1 pistols, particularly the .22 cal.
John

[DCL_dave]

Hi Lakey,

Some problems I have encountered with Gems include...

Sloppy breeches and barrel latches - by virtue of design really.
Worn or replaced pivot pins - seems to be very common...
Bent trigger guard/cocking levers - they do take a lot of strain during the cocking proccess and can bend inward.
Split stocks,
Worn trigger sears,
Missing, wrong or homemade sights...

...and, as is most often the case, the general wear and tear from a 100 years of neglect!...all good fun though!

[I. J.]

To be pedantic - the wrong rear sight on FWB Sports (124 & 127).
Wrong foresight hood on early BSA Airsporters.
Cracked stock around pistol grip on quite a few classics.
Spring retaining cross pin elongating the cylinder on Webley Hawks.
Ox mainsprings.

I can think of many more given the time.

ATB
Ian

[Garvin]

Good thread Lakey. One thing that springs to mind re. pre-War BSAs is something I think you mentioned to me yourself. It's damage to the front part of the stock where it meets the trigger block, due to oil applied to the metalwork slowly running downwards when the gun is placed upright in a rack, cupboard or against a wall. I've seen plenty like this. The oil soaks into the wood, staining it black and making it soft and prone to impact damage.

Another BSA problem I've come across more than once is cocking lever catch posts coming loose in their little dovetails under the barrel.

On various pre-War rifles, including the BSAs, I've seen the tips of the front sights having been knocked off and sometimes new ones brazed on, generally not very well. More often the front sight will be reshaped crudely but without the tip will be several millimetres lower than it should be.

[Lakey]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. this is beginning to turn into a good thread

Another thing that I have seen a lot of is the lower corner of Webley pistol grips broken off due to wrong location of the grip on the little locating peg/stud on the frame. i cant work out if it happens as the grips are being removed or when they get put back???

Maybe a Webley pistol expert can enlighten us.....

Also what about all the design faults in the FWB Sport, such as poor lock up, breech wear, plastic trigger etc etc

( that should put the cat amongst the pigeons )



keep em coming



Lakey

[hwvixen]

Webley Service fitted with a...a....a......his nibs barrel....there ,I said it.. orrible.

[Lakey]

How many people have found pump-ups that dont hold air any longer? and CO2 guns that can not longer hold gas?

Not to mention break barrels with blocked barrels !

[Lakey]

Good thread Lakey. One thing that springs to mind re. pre-War BSAs is something I think you mentioned to me yourself. It's damage to the front part of the stock where it meets the trigger block, due to oil applied to the metalwork slowly running downwards when the gun is placed upright in a rack, cupboard or against a wall. I've seen plenty like this. The oil soaks into the wood, staining it black and making it soft and prone to impact damage.

Another BSA problem I've come across more than once is cocking lever catch posts coming loose in their little dovetails under the barrel.

On various pre-War rifles, including the BSAs, I've seen the tips of the front sights having been knocked off and sometimes new ones brazed on, generally not very well. More often the front sight will be reshaped crudely but without the tip will be several millimetres lower than it should be.

Spot on Garvin
Boy....... I wish I had a £1 for every broken off ( and ofter re-filed) BSA foresight I have seen. What we need is more BSA patent spring metal foresight protectors

[edbear2]

On Pre-war BSA's especially.....and IMHO, this is the only flaw in the original design, a potentially unstable joint area between cylinder and block if not maintained..... (have seen 2 guns with a third top screw that looked contemporary to the gun.....also guns vary a lot in the block/cylinder fit...I am positive that they were good originally, as VGC guns have a good fit, and ones that show signs of misuse are normally on the sloppy side....a non permanent grade of thread lock helps on these)

...hairline cracks from the trigger guard screw holes in the cylinder (caused by shooting with loose screws)...

The same screw holes stripped due to sloppy assembly by previous owners or due to tension or misfit in the trigger guard (later "sheet metal" types especially)...always start these screws by hand!

The same screw holes tapped out to 2ba thread, and modified screws fitted (usually an easy to spot mod due to wide screw slots.....but also a good fix if you are more worried about shootability than originality)

on "sheet metal" trigger guard 1920's/30's guns.....stripped third (tang) trigger guard screws (woodscrew)....these are fairly common, but an easy fix...drill out stock hole to a larger size and fit/glue in a hardwood plug.

cracks in stocks where the locating pin fits the stock at the metal/wood joint....sometimes due to rust expansion on "wet" guns, also caused by a combination of a loose stock bolt, and using the stock to turn the trigger block out when dismantling .....always tighten stock bolt before removing the "back end"

loose and damaged dovetails on sights and barrel catches......removing sights from the wrong direction does not help, as does using punches etc. to "tighten" sights....waste of time.....remove sight, and gently tap edge of dovetail with brass hammer, or use shim/locktite in severe cases

No cocking'locking....as Lakey says, but also check secondary cocking lever is not "closed up"........strip gun, and push piston into trigger block as a quick check for piston rod/sear engagement.....(but always remove trigger and sear and check for damage in any case, even if it locks....it may not under spring pressure)

Normal weird and wonderful finds inside air chamber

Damaged/stripped washer piston washer screws (can be re-tapped larger)

Damage to foresight and sometimes barrel crown

Vise marks on breech area......or worse........on cylinder

and last but not least...Bleedin white paint......what is it????....where does it come from?????.....are all old guns stored in a garage, where people endlessly stir gallon cans of friggin emulsion

[Lakey]

Yep, I too have seen the white paint many times before - especially splashed onto the stock area.

Thanks for the answer Ed

All the best

Lakey

[coburn]

HW35's with chunks out of the stock caused but the breech lever sticking.

[Phil Russell]

Mainly on auction buys:
Stripped threads on various screws/bolts and the parts they screw into: Not always possible to tap holes to original but normally possible to tap out to a larger size. Often the bolt/screw is impossible to rethread so a larger one has to me made.
Non original piston washers: I have just come across an attempt to make a piston washer from two discs cut from what looks like a car floor mat.
Broken springs: I have just come across an attempt to use two bits of different springs in an old rifle.
Bits and pieces in the cylinder: various items ranging from 1.5" flat nails to the actual piston head that must have come loose and is now stuck at the end of the cylinder; a subsequent shot most likely destroyed the screw thread on the piston head and retaining screw.

But it is all part of the fun. As they say 'buyer beware'.
Cheers, Phil