Help ID old breakbarrel

**Mrs. H** · 02-04-2010, 10:48 AM

Hi folks! Happy Easter to everyone.

Anyone fancy a Good Friday competition?
If so… any idea what this rifle is???!

We’ve been through all our books here but haven’t managed to find anything that quite fits it. Condition is ‘well used’ and the trigger guard is a replacement so don’t pay too much attention to it! The garage fairy has given it a full workover as it was in a very sorry state when I got it. The trigger guard was absent so we’ve utilised one from the spares box to tide it over.

Age-wise I’m guessing its in the 1910-1930 area. And as can be seen it has a few interesting features that I’m hoping might ring a bell with someone;

Barrel: It’s a break barrel. Total length is 48cm / 19”. It starts out octaganol and then becomes round for the last 19.5cm / 7.4”

Stock: Walnut with a shaped metal butt plate.

Barrel guides; there are ‘rails’ for want of a better description to the underside that the underlever pivot runs along when the barrel is broken.

Name: not much to go on! The barrel I think has been rusty and then rubbed back, on the underside you can just about make out some words, the last letters of which are … MANY. I’m guessing this will be ‘MADE IN GERMANY’. There is a number ‘907’ to the underside of the barrel block, visible when its broken.

My initial thoughts were that it might be a Haenel / Schmeisser, but I can’t see any sign of their logo to the top of the cylinder.

Any ideas??
Thanks!
Anne

**leadhead** · 02-04-2010, 10:55 AM

Looks very much like one of my Haenels?

**Mrs. H** · 02-04-2010, 11:04 AM

Yeah, it just doesn't seem to match any of the models I've looked at. Most of the Haenels I've seen have a slight 'bump' for a pistol grip on the stock, but this is very angular. The barrel looks to be smoothbore; it was pretty filthy but I can't see any evidence of rifling in it.
Its a bit shorter than the Haenel Mod.II, total length of this piece is 104cm. I can't see any evidence at all of a name or logo on the top of the cylinder.
Hmmmm!

edbear2 · 02-04-2010, 11:50 AM

I have an old Lepco kicking about somewhere in the loft, which looks very similar style wise, regarding the stock, as does a similar period Tell I also have. If I wasn't ripping the built in wardrobe out in the spare bedroom,I would go in search of them.......I am sure Garvin will be along soon and help out

**DCL_dave** · 02-04-2010, 12:24 PM

The stamping on the underside of the barrel looks like it could be "GERMANY" with the "GER" part worn away or miss-stamped in the first place...sort of puts Langenham, Bergman, Oscar Will and the like in the frame...but then you probably already guessed that much?

**olivercromwell** · 02-04-2010, 12:29 PM

It looks like a Millita

**Phil Russell** · 02-04-2010, 12:50 PM

To add a little more detail:
The piston is 25mm diameter and uses a leather cup washer. The trigger acts directly on the piston ... i.e. there is no 'piston rod'. The trigger has an adjustment screw (missing but replaced from the 'bits' box) that simply varies sear engagement.
Barrel pivot was 6mm bolt ... threads were stripped on both bolt and cylinder. Trigger pivots on a pin.
Trigger spring faces up against and into a small recess in the the wooden stock. Standard leather breech seal and plunger for lock-up.
A Meteor spring will most likely fit but may need to be cut down by 2 or 3 coils.
Current performance with an old spring is c. 450-500fps depending on pellet.

Cheers, Phil

**Mrs. H** · 02-04-2010, 12:58 PM

Ta Dave,
I've been right through Hillier's book for all the main German manafacturers, but I guess the problem is it just lists a few models rather than a full inventory, and most of those listed were either detailed as being much shorter than this, or are tap loaders rather than break barrels.
There are a few odd holes on the stock that are also a bit bemusing; two on the top and one on the side. No obvious bruising or shadowing around them though. They don't look like screw holes, more the rectangular holes that flat nails make.

I see this one has got us all thinking!

**DCL_dave** · 02-04-2010, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by batfink

Name: not much to go on! The barrel I think has been rusty and then rubbed back, on the underside you can just about make out some words, the last letters of which are … MANY. I’m guessing this will be ‘MADE IN GERMANY’. There is a number ‘907’ to the underside of the barrel block, visible when its broken.

My initial thoughts were that it might be a Haenel / Schmeisser, but I can’t see any sign of their logo to the top of the cylinder.

Originally Posted by DCL_dave

The stamping on the underside of the barrel looks like it could be "GERMANY" with the "GER" part worn away or miss-stamped in the first place...

Sorry, I really should learn to read threads properly!

...

How are the cocking lever rails fixed?...I suppose it's possible that they could have been custom fitted after being sold...but they look sort of similar to the rails on a composite Gem, which would possibly put Langenham in the frame maybe?...just guessing really

**Mrs. H** · 02-04-2010, 01:11 PM

lol

The rails look to be welded in place; no evidence of screws or bolts. I have to say they look very 'tidy' and are the same patinated brown as the rest of the metalwork, so if they aren't original they've been there a very long time.

**DCL_dave** · 02-04-2010, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by batfink

lol

The rails look to be welded in place; no evidence of screws or bolts. I have to say they look very 'tidy' and are the same patinated brown as the rest of the metalwork, so if they aren't original they've been there a very long time.

A proper old mystery then!

...but atleast the triggerguard isn't a mystery, that is from a BSA Meteor, reshaped and turned around the other way...unless I'm mistaken?

**Mrs. H** · 02-04-2010, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by DCL_dave

...but atleast the triggerguard isn't a mystery, that is from a BSA Meteor, reshaped and turned around the other way...unless I'm mistaken?

lmao

Yep, the wonders of modern technology.... or in this case a biscuit tin full of bits

**Mrs. H** · 02-04-2010, 02:01 PM

Just an update... the 'rails' that the underlever arm runs in are original. I've just spoken to the garage fairy (and delivered another cup of coffee as he's working on an airsporter foresight for me ) and he's confirmed that the arm itself has a horizontal pin through it that locates in grooves within the rails.

**DCL_dave** · 02-04-2010, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by batfink

lmao

Yep, the wonders of modern technology.... or in this case a biscuit tin full of bits

lol!

The trigger block looks unusual in as much as it sweeps over to form a smooth rounded contour to the stock, similar to a prewar Diana 27 and the Original V...Haenels look more slab side and angular...

Langenham type heavy Militia...that'll be my best guess

**corbett** · 02-04-2010, 05:14 PM

Good day, the rails look to be a similar form to the Mayer & Grammelspacher MG1. Not the same but of a type.?Just a thought.

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