STOCK Stamp marks - any idea who ?

[Arch.Stanton?]

I have a late C .S .with a nice walnut stock . It has a odd stamp or makers mark to one side . It shows a heavily stylised eagle with outstretched wings . Has anyone seen similar , and let me in on who 's stamp this was made for , possibly a retailer ?
Asking Neil to post a photo in a moment .

[Neil.]

Here.

[Marsh.]

Hi, What is a C.S????
Marsh.

[edbear2]

Hi, What is a C.S????
Marsh.

.177 version of the 1920's / 30's BSA standard........stands for Club Standard / Club Special depending on your opinion ( I think Club Standard is "correct")

Ie. If using a gun for bell target etc., a .22 would not be allowed, so the .177's were designated CS as they were intended for target (club) use, as opposed to hunting / general use......They appear randomly serial number wise, so gun number 77345 may be an S prefix (.22), and 77346 may be a CS prefix (.177) and so on.

Re; the Butt stamp........Imperial German army 1871 - 1919 .......make sure you wear a pointy helmet when using it!





Sorry, couldn't resist that.......No idea, but looks too well done to be an ex-owners idea of "decoration"


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[Marsh.]

Ed, Thanks for that info. it's a big help trying to understand the early BSA air rifles. If you don't ask you will never know.
Regards Marsh.

[Arch.Stanton?]

Well , its def an inked or burned on mark using a machine made stamp /symmetrical mark , as in factory marks , but only to the surface .
I reckon on an export stamp but have never seen this design before .

Anyone else

[Arch.Stanton?]

Well when I looked at the mark I thought that too " ermmm German military trainer , then thought "Get a grip !" Lol !! .
Has anyone any info on what I am now thinking is a school /college Shooting Club gun - anyone seen this style before ?

[Arch.Stanton?]

Can anyone explain the differences between CS - long and short versions .
I see especially :
- the trigger guard on the shorter CS has 4 hole fixings (and may be a replacement )- the longer CS has only on fixing screw to rear .
-however there is also a trigger adj screw to the front of the guard - that is not on the longer version and could not fit it (- the trigger is set back and deeper in the block so no screw adj would work ) .
- the 'block' on the shorter CS is a single hole type , the longer CS has a earlier style ie L pattern 3 hole block .
- the woodwork has a pronounced sharp edge to the hand grip base on the shorter CS unlike the more tad rounded edging of the L's and the longer CS .

I give up !
Still wondering about that Eagle logo too !

[Arch.Stanton?]

Any input ?

[edbear2]

Hi Mate.......as i posted earlier, the CS designation was used at random throughout the 1920's / 30's guns....so any 43 or 45 inch gun, with either a "3 hole"...(where the trigger adjustment is by a cross screw through the block, with a locking screw opposite), or " 1 stroke 2 hole"...(where the trigger adjustment is by a screw through the trigger guard as on early guns) block can be a CS.......to complicate things a bit, the later plainer guns were called the "club number 4"

The Hiller book is a fairly good reference to the evolution of the guns, and a big help, although not every variation is listed, but assuming we are talking post WW1 guns, ie. push button cocking arms (button at the front and looking very like a MK 3 Webley)....the earlier guns had more keeper screws, and more of the appearance of the pre WW1 guns...ie. the loading port was the same rounded shape, nicely stamped with the crossed rifles and "load 1 or 2" depending on cal....as time went by, costs were cut, and the guns were simplified, the last guns having a plain large pivot for the cocking arm, held in by the loading tap plate, a flat topped loading area, and a basic letter stamped "1" on the barrel.....the stocks changed too, with the earlier guns having a rounded pistol grip and plain, heat impressed checkering, wheras as time passed, the later guns got a BSA logo in the checkering, and a sharper profile to the pistol grip....do a search for a BSA "breakdown model" to see what I mean....and of course, as usual there were guns with any or all of these features in the stocks as models and tooling changed (transitional models) as you get with the mark 1/2 airsporters.......I know this sound complicated, but it really isn't, you either need a reference book, or to see more of these guns side by side........of course, all the parts can be interchanged up to a point, so it is common to see guns which have had later or earlier parts fitted if possible which can add to the confusion......I have just fitted a straight hand stock to a late .22 standard (as the late guns had a tangless trigger guard) just because I liked the look / feel of it!...

Have a look at these and look at what I am trying to say........

an early (post WW1) standard no.2

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3122848...7622709182780/

A late gun (which initially I was unsure of being a "proper" one...ie. all original)...but was told by the real experts on here was a Club no. 4..look at the top and the pivot pin etc. to see what the obvious differences are;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3122848...7621938344655/


As you see / get to examine more and more of these old BSA's, it it quite easy to realise the period they are from, but the odd mix and match gun, or ones from the periods where they were using up old stocks of spares crop up, just to throw a spanner in the works, and that is a large part of their appeal, especially to the type of collector who wants "one of each type"....there are loads of variations!!...O.K., to a casual observer they all look very much the same, but trust me you could have a roomfull of the things and no two would be identical!....and that's before you get into retailers stamps etc.

Hope this helps a bit, but you would do well to get a Hillers, as just these guns take up several pages, and the pictures really make the evolution of the guns easier to refer to

[Phil Russell]

Thanks for the information edbear. Very useful as I am in the process of restoring a Standard model (S prefix, 3 hole trigger block, locking screw on cocking axis bolt) ... see Wanted add for a pressed steel trigger guard. I continually come across rifles from that period that do not seem to match exactly some of the published descriptions and I always assumed they were 'bitsa' rifles completed using available parts.

Cheers, Phil

[Arch.Stanton?]

..mine of info and obviously have handled more than a few !!