Antique flintlocks and matchlocks at auction

[Daigoro]

I attended an auction this afternoon in the hope of acquiring a couple of old flintlock pistols and possibly a couple of matchlock long guns. The pistols went for £660 which was more than I was prepared to pay (but was maybe still a bargain). The matchlocks went for £216, which seemed like a bargain but I resisted bidding because I don't feel I know enough about these things (and it also wasn't really what I wanted).

Can anyone advise - for future reference - if either of these lots might have been worth having at these prices?

Flintlocks

Matchlocks

Thanks

[Fronteria]

I think that you need to sort out why you want to buy them is it for a collection, if so what is the theme.
Is it for profit if you don't know your market you will lose large sums of money very quickly.
Or is it for your own interest and enjoyment then you buy anything that takes your fancy.

[robinghewitt]

That sounds about right price wise, Indian matchlocks used to fetch £15 to £20, cheaper in a job lot, these are probably about the same. Might still be a good time to buy, prices have dipped.

I spent £400 on a panless, matchlock, musqt barrel, an ex-pub wall hanger. Had it dated by the Royal Armories c1640, English civil war. They thought it was incredibly boring, I thought it was blooming wonderful. It is the pressure components that count for "Curiosity or Ornament" status, so I can restock it then hang a working piece on my bedroom wall.

I got a wheel lock mechanism someone butchered about the same time trying to fit it to a musket, I think they might go well together if I ever get time

[steve medlock]

If you have an interest, the pair of matchlocks were a bargain.

[njaw]

I think you did well to stay away from the pistols. That one on the bottom doesn't look right to me.

I would rather spend £660 on one decent piece. Henry Krank is selling a nice pair of pocket flinlock pistols for not far over that sort of money:

http://www.henrykrank.com/fp196.html

These would make a nice start to collecting antique arms.

The matchlocks seems okay value wise but the basic matchlocks don't go for fortunes anyway.

[Daigoro]

Thanks for the input. Part of my concern is that I wouldn't be able to identify the real thing. I'm after something purely for collection/ornamental reasons - something to caress occasionally! I was going to buy some replicas but I thought I'd look into the real thing. I'd love something along the lines of a pair of saw-handled duelling pistols but clearly that's unrealistic, and, having seen the sort of prices good flintlocks go for, it looks like I'll be sticking to the replicas.

[njaw]

Replicas are all well and good, but if you want something to really enjoy, admire, research, I would recommend you keep saving those pounds. Remember, if you buy a good antique pistol, you have placed your money into a investment. If you buy a replica, don't expect to get your money back.

I found a nice flintlock pocket pistol for sale on a website for under £300. A real bargain. I think the website is called Gunstar (google it). The pistol appeared a right bargain!

[Daigoro]

Yes, I can certainly see the advantages of buying antiques over replicas but I'm increasingly feeling less like I can justify the price. Much as I'd like the real thing, I can get an assortment of replicas for the price of one antique - not the same, I know, but hopefully enough to satisfy the urge.

[doctordoom]

you need both!!
a replica to shoot and enjoy
an antique to caress nurture, enjoy and appreciate in value while the replica falls in value
Best of both worlds, enjoy ATB John

[Daigoro]

you need both!!
a replica to shoot and enjoy
an antique to caress nurture, enjoy and appreciate in value while the replica falls in value
Best of both worlds, enjoy ATB John

I would love to be able to own (and fire) a fully operable replica, unfortunately the law here make it effectively impossible for me to own one - too many bank robberies and murders using flintlocks, presumably.

I'm afraid I'm stuck with the non-firing variety.

[steve medlock]

I don't know how Scottish law differs from English in this respect, but I would advise you to contact your nearest muzzle loading club and ask if you can pay them a visit.

Maintaining ownership of firearms is not simple or easy but no doubt everyone on this forum would agree that the benefit justifies the effort.

[Arch.Stanton?]

..provide a few suprises and at that price for two pistols with an assortment of ephemea - this was a very good price . An old gun ,out of its box for years will loose parts and be repaired and is still okay even if not as original ......any high end shotgun owners will tell you the same if they damage or break a gun in use and then have it resrored or repaired . The upper pistol will fetch this price on its own retail from dealers .
The Matchlocks well basic and crude they do have their charm and make nice display pieces . In todays climate at £100 + each they too were worth buying .

[Daigoro]

I got the impression that pretty much EVERYONE else in the room was a dealer - for that reason I suspect that if I'd been able to bid enough to "win", I'd have implicitly paid too much. There's another auction in August which I will undoubtedly attend.

I believe it would be next to impossible for me to get a shotgun certificate - I think the countersignatory is my biggest problem.

[Arch.Stanton?]

Well , I see it as the reverse of this .
I don't go to auctions much but on the auction floor the 'seller' treats everyone the same ie highest bidder wins .
A dealer will buy to make a profit - on top of what he has spent to obtain it , so in my mind you are quids in bidding against a dealer - they start to slacken off the higher the price gets - less profit .
The only time this can backfire is when you have a dealer who has a specific customer in mind for the goods - he may well go a lot higher into his expected mark up to win the item - and if you want it then you will pay more for it if you win .