Tokyo Marui 1911

[sol1821]

This wont have been the case in this situation though.

Either the OP is a airsoft skirmisher registered with UKARA or a skirmish site with PLI, the pistol he purchased is painted in a bright colour, it was sold to him illegaly or it was sold under some kind of loophole.

]

or the pistol is putting out more than 1 joule.

I really can't understand why people are getting so angry about this, it was just a simple question as to what exemption the OP used to purchase the pistol

possibly because you are ignoring what people have said, in that if the pistol is putting out over a certain power it is not classed as an rif.

there is no loophole it is what it is.

been inhaling too much of that green gas???

[chris u'5]

People are speculating that it's over 1 Joule the OP hasn't said that.

It could be many things, he's an airsoft skirmisher registered with UKARA, he's a member of a skirmish site with suitable PLI, he's a member of a re-enactors society, he's a member of the military or police and requires it for training purposes, it's brightly painted, he's joined some kind practical pistol association (which I believe Elite accept or did accept) or it's over 1 Joule (which I knew would change the legal status but I did not know that airsoft retailers were doing this and upgrading pistols)

I can't believe this has resulted in personal insults

Go back and read my initial question it was fairly simple and straight forward and contained no malice or ulterior motives but I apologise if you have been given that impression.

The only I have continued to post in this thread is people are questioning my motives but my only motive was pure curiosity and the fact that if there was an alternative way to purchase RIFs I was interested to know what it was.

[BobSki]

People are speculating that it's over 1 Joule the OP hasn't said that.

It could be many things, he's an airsoft skirmisher registered with UKARA, he's a member of a skirmish site with suitable PLI, he's a member of a re-enactors society, he's a member of the military or police and requires it for training purposes, it's brightly painted, he's joined some kind practical pistol association (which I believe Elite accept or did accept) or it's over 1 Joule (which I knew would change the legal status but I did not know that airsoft retailers were doing this and upgrading pistols)

I can't believe this has resulted in personal insults

Go back and read my initial question it was fairly simple and straight forward and contained no malice or ulterior motives but I apologise if you have been given that impression.

The only I have continued to post in this thread is people are questioning my motives but my only motive was pure curiosity and the fact that if there was an alternative way to purchase RIFs I was interested to know what it was.

I was guilty of starting that, as after I read that you had dealt with Mr Cripps in the past and did not want to do so again, it lead me to wonder what history there was between you that would lead you to make such an observation and why you would be so interested in how he was selling his toys. If I'm wrong, I can only apologise.

You are correct in all the different ways some one can own a non dual-tone airsoft pistol. As you said, some people may have been speculating that the gun may have been over 1 Joule, but you categorically stated that "this would not be the case". I think you are equally guilty of a bit of speculation.

What I find totally absurd with regard to the VCRA is that a serving/retired police officer with a section 1 firearms certificate and a shotgun certificate, who legally owns section 1 rifles, 12G shot guns, sub 12ftlb air rifles (.177 & .22) & several Air Pistols, all resembling the "real Steel" item & ALL of which are FAR more powerful than an airsoft pistol, can not legally buy a bloody TOY it's totally stupid.

The other totally stupid thing is that the two-tone colours are simply paint added by the manufacturer/supplier. I understand it may be an offence for you and I to remove said two-tone colours, or to paint over them again as "we" are not manufacturers but do you really think that Mr Gangsta, who wants a RIF for his next hold-up is going to worry too much about breaking the law by removing those lovely colours?

The VCRA, yet another example of crass stupidity dreamed up by a crassly stupid government in a crassly stupid attempt to win votes, with no real effect on crime or criminals.

Hey Ho, I suppose the majority of Britain must have voted the Labour tossers in to power, so we got what we deserved.

[sol1821]

I can't believe this has resulted in personal insults

.

if thats in reference to what i said about the green gas, sorry if it caused offence i was only joking.

[mickson]

All these problems arise, cos even the dummy's who wrote the laws are confused, by them what chance do normal people have??...mike...

[chris u'5]

You're correct Bob, I did speculate when I said that and it was incorrect of me to do so.

But I can honestly assure you that my posts are nothing to do with the fact that Elite was involved, I shouldn't have mentioned that as it is irrelevant and I would have asked the same question no matter who was involved. I can understand how that may have lead people to question my motives however.

In my defence I speculated because after many years of airsoft interest pre and post VCRA and after being a regular on the main UK and International forum for many years I had never heard of Elite or any other airsoft retailer selling airsoft pistols produced by dedicated airsoft manufacturers and upgrading them so they then legally become air pistols.

But just because I had never heard of it or experienced it doesn't mean it hasn't happened, you're correct to point out that mistake.

If this is happening then these sales will have to be face to face and not online though.

But as mickson has said, the VCRA is a mess and it seems until somebody is actually taken to court under these laws with an airsoft related matter then it's very likely to stay that way.

[Jim McArthur]

I don't understand any of this "green gas / airsoft" stuff.

I was under the impression that airsoft is some updated version of the old paintball games.

Are these guns really accurate enough for target competition, even UBC plinking competition? Or are they just bad-@#$ - looking things that can be used to hit a guy with at close ranges, leaving no ill effects?

Jim

[BobSki]

No worries Chris, Speculating is good for the sole

Jim. Airsoft Guns are built to run on Propane gas. It comes in different standards and offers different power. As far as I can tell there are three types. standard 134a, Green Gas (middle of the road) & Red gas which is the most powerful. Some folks actually use Camping type propane. You can buy an adapter that fits on to the propane cylinder. It stinks worse than the Red or Green, (which seems to be the same stuff but with a bit of perfume added) but is an awful lot cheaper. You fill your guns magazines with the stuff, rather like huge cigarette lighters.

The guns are not accurate enough for target shooting. They have smooth bores and shoot BB's but some are really BadA$$ looking and theycertainly are used to shoot people at close and not so close ranges. With regard to there "leaving no ill effects" I don't think that can be true. I was shooting at the weekend, doing Practical Pistol at Bisley, with a group of guys who do "Skirmishing" (Playing at soldiers). One of them had little pea sized bruises and pock marks all over his arms where he had taken several hits a few weeks earlier. He looked like he'd been a prisoner of war and had fags stubbed out all over him.

All the best
Bob

[Paul55]

No worries Chris, Speculating is good for the sole

Jim. Airsoft Guns are built to run on Propane gas. It comes in different standards and offers different power. As far as I can tell there are three types. standard 134a, Green Gas (middle of the road) & Red gas which is the most powerful. Some folks actually use Camping type propane. You can buy an adapter that fits on to the propane cylinder. It stinks worse than the Red or Green, (which seems to be the same stuff but with a bit of perfume added) but is an awful lot cheaper. You fill your guns magazines with the stuff, rather like huge cigarette lighters.

The guns are not accurate enough for target shooting. They have smooth bores and shoot BB's but some are really BadA$$ looking and theycertainly are used to shoot people at close and not so close ranges. With regard to there "leaving no ill effects" I don't think that can be true. I was shooting at the weekend, doing Practical Pistol at Bisley, with a group of guys who do "Skirmishing" (Playing at soldiers). One of them had little pea sized bruises and pock marks all over his arms where he had taken several hits a few weeks earlier. He looked like he'd been a prisoner of war and had fags stubbed out all over him.

All the best
Bob

Oh I don't know, mine's quite good at 6 yds

[jefL]

As I understand it Jim, airsoft started in Japan as a result of them not being allowed real guns of any sort. There are various power sources such as simple spring, compound spring, electric motor (for semi-auto/auto) gas. The gas used is generally a variant of LPG such as butane or propane or less common CO2. There is a strict power limit in Japan based on not being able to cause injury. The guns can be extremely well made and very accurate within limits of range, generally no more than 10 yds. A version of metal plate shooting against the clock is very popular in Japan, check it out on youtube.
The association with paintballing came about when people realised you could shoot each other with these things without fatal results so skirmishing became popular in the UK and other countries and thrives all over Europe. People "play" at soldiers with these things and have competitions simulating battles and firefights. I put play in inverted commas as it can get quite serious and these things also come a bit tight at close range unless you are wearing heavy clothing.
The colour of the gas denotes power, green is average, red is more powerful, I think. I don't skirmish but I do have a few airsoft guns as collectors pieces.
Hope this helps Jim, and do look on youtube for airsoft, some of the shooters are very fast.

[Paul55]

They are also used in Practical Pistol comps as well. Shooting at cardboard targets, similar to IPAS in that it is more speed based than standing and really composing youself.

This is the aspect I'm hoping to get involved with, but at the same time I can use it for the UBC comps, 6yds and especially the Police Comp

[Jim McArthur]

No worries Chris, Speculating is good for the sole

Jim. Airsoft Guns are built to run on Propane gas. It comes in different standards and offers different power. As far as I can tell there are three types. standard 134a, Green Gas (middle of the road) & Red gas which is the most powerful. Some folks actually use Camping type propane. You can buy an adapter that fits on to the propane cylinder. It stinks worse than the Red or Green, (which seems to be the same stuff but with a bit of perfume added) but is an awful lot cheaper. You fill your guns magazines with the stuff, rather like huge cigarette lighters.

The guns are not accurate enough for target shooting. They have smooth bores and shoot BB's but some are really BadA$$ looking and theycertainly are used to shoot people at close and not so close ranges. With regard to there "leaving no ill effects" I don't think that can be true. I was shooting at the weekend, doing Practical Pistol at Bisley, with a group of guys who do "Skirmishing" (Playing at soldiers). One of them had little pea sized bruises and pock marks all over his arms where he had taken several hits a few weeks earlier. He looked like he'd been a prisoner of war and had fags stubbed out all over him.

All the best
Bob

Propane gas...wouldn't that be explosive, or flammable?

Jim

[Jim McArthur]

Oh I don't know, mine's quite good at 6 yds

This is true.

Jim

[Jim McArthur]

As I understand it Jim, airsoft started in Japan as a result of them not being allowed real guns of any sort. There are various power sources such as simple spring, compound spring, electric motor (for semi-auto/auto) gas. The gas used is generally a variant of LPG such as butane or propane or less common CO2. There is a strict power limit in Japan based on not being able to cause injury. The guns can be extremely well made and very accurate within limits of range, generally no more than 10 yds. A version of metal plate shooting against the clock is very popular in Japan, check it out on youtube.
The association with paintballing came about when people realised you could shoot each other with these things without fatal results so skirmishing became popular in the UK and other countries and thrives all over Europe. People "play" at soldiers with these things and have competitions simulating battles and firefights. I put play in inverted commas as it can get quite serious and these things also come a bit tight at close range unless you are wearing heavy clothing.
The colour of the gas denotes power, green is average, red is more powerful, I think. I don't skirmish but I do have a few airsoft guns as collectors pieces.
Hope this helps Jim, and do look on youtube for airsoft, some of the shooters are very fast.

Thanks, Jef.

I understand the Japanese also started the realistic replica craze, for the same reason.

Jim

[Paul55]

Propane gas...wouldn't that be explosive, or flammable?

Jim

Yep