Why do top Olympic air pistol shooters only use Steyr, Morini or Walther?

[diathermic]

What makes the Steyr, Morini, and Walther so heavily preferred in 10m Air pistol? What's wrong with the Pardini, FWB, the Anzschutz (well, now it's discontinued), the Rohm and Twin Master, FAS, Benelli, Matchguns, SAM, and Tesro guns to name a few? They all are pre-compressed pneumatic pistols, they all have similar designs with counterweights, compensators, match grade grips, and it seems, fully adjustable triggers. Do the top three pistols just shoot that much better? Is it the range of adjustability? The compensators? The reliability? The finish?
I care about shooting ISSF 10m Air Pistol competitively and though I am just learning, I wonder if I'm really going to be hindered by not buying one of the top guns.
I have shot .22 bullseye pistol in the US quite a bit, and I have had confirmation from a number of people (including a guy on the US shooting team) that you can get well into nationals shooting a lowly Ruger MK II or III for 1/3 the price of a full Olympic-grade gun. Is this the same case as with air pistols?
I know it is hard to compare these guns since most people don't have access to even a few of them at the same time. So if you have had a chance to compare, please share!

Thanks!

[Jim McArthur]

I can't offer any expertise but I will offer a thought: people often try - usually without much success - to make up for in equipment what they lack in skill.

Junk guns aside, it's a rare shooter who can outshoot his gun.

Jim

[bullbarrel]

Sponsorship

[diathermic]

Here is an informal survey I made off of ISSF tv and the web

Air Pistols Used:
Jong-Oh Jin (KOR) - Steyr
Bin Zhang (CHN) - Morini
Brian Beeman (USA) - Steyr
Norayr Baktamyan (ARM) - Steyr
Damir Mikec (SRB) - Walther
Daryl Szarenski (USA) - Steyr
Franck Dumoulin (FRA) - Pardini
Walter Lapeyre (FRA) - Morini
Vladimir Isakov (RUS) - Walther
Mauro Badaracchi (ITA) - Morini
Lip Meng Poh (SIN) - Steyr
Julio Almeida (BRA) - Walther
Wei Pang (CHN) - Steyr
Tian Zhang (CHN) - Steyr
Yifu Wang (CHN) - Steyr
Rashid Yunusmetov (KAZ) - Steyr

There must be something fundamental about these guns!?

[Hemmers]

Yes, the vast bias in the medal tables at major internationals shows it is not just club shooters getting shiny kit syndrome.

Someone will doubtless shoot me down in flames, but as I see it, there is less room or need for variation in pistol than rifle for instance.

With a rifle, you've got to consider weight, butt length, foreend length and depth, different sight options, cheekpiece options, pistol grip adjustment, trigger, etc, etc. Some people do 3P, some are prone specialists. There's a need for a lot of different stock designs and configurations. You find the stock that fits you and your disciplines, and then get a good barrel and action to fit it.

With pistol, it's at arm's length. For a right-handed shooter, the left arm is irrelevant, unlike in rifle where it's very relevant. Whereas rifle has the list of above considerations, with pistol you're worried about:
- Accuracy
- Trigger
- Weight
- Grip

Now the manufacturer can control the first 3 of those, and realistically the grip ends up being a bespoke home-custom job with modelling putty. You simply don't need so much factory-made variation in design to accommodate different people.

Steyr, Morini, Walther and Pardini have got a reputation for getting the first two absolutely right, and offer their pistols in a variety of weights, so finding one that fits the shooter is not an issue.

Without wishing to cast aspersions on the other guns (Anschutz make a great gun - their rifles are world beaters, as do FWB and the others), you're paying for the knowledge that these guns are time-proven Olympic champions if you do your bit. You also know their service teams will be at every major match. Do Benelli and FAS send service teams to all the World Cups, etc? (I don't actually know... do they? I would imagine Steyr get to more pistol matches than Benelli, so we're talking about substantial after-sales support).
When you've spent 4 years of your life dedicated to training, you want to know that:
(1) Your gun isn't going to break halfway through the Olympic final
(2) If it does, there is an engineer from the manufacturer stood 10 yards away at the back of the range

Also, if your Steyr breaks, the guy next door to you, and the one next to him probably have the same gun, and the RO probably shoots one when he's not officiating! Why go with something less common when the popular and well-supported one works so well. You just pick the model that's weighted right for you, customise the grip and crack on.

It not a case that the uncommon ones are inaccurate or unreliable, it's just if you're competing at an international level, the difference between £300 and £800 as a long-term investment is not that great. You need the right tool for the job. You can look at a Steyr and go "That works brilliantly. I've seen it work brilliantly. I know it will continue to work brilliantly."

And yeah, sponsorship plays a part as well

[Powderfinger]

Hemmers is right in what he says. Top shooters are always going to have worked through the options and picked what is best for them. Sales support is clearly important and so is sponsorship, I suppose. But 90% of shooting success (probably more) will always be down to the shooter not the gun. I still see FWB300 and Walther LGR rifles at regional comps (and the Eley-NSRA final at Bisley). I have been in the Eley Bisley finals and finished in the top quartile of my regional competitions using an FWB65. The nut behind the trigger is always the part that counts.

[tufty]

Its really down to the fit of the pistol, nearly all of those pistols will shoot hole on hole benchclamped. I have 2 steyr's an lp10 and an lp50, and both have test cards are like this, though the lp50 is a bit more ragged
the great advantage of these is the almost infinate level of adjustability, even in the electronic trigger version, this is what makes the difference at the top level of shooting(which I am nowhere near)

[Jim McArthur]

Yes, the vast bias in the medal tables at major internationals shows it is not just club shooters getting shiny kit syndrome.

Someone will doubtless shoot me down in flames, but as I see it, there is less room or need for variation in pistol than rifle for instance.

With a rifle, you've got to consider weight, butt length, foreend length and depth, different sight options, cheekpiece options, pistol grip adjustment, trigger, etc, etc. Some people do 3P, some are prone specialists. There's a need for a lot of different stock designs and configurations. You find the stock that fits you and your disciplines, and then get a good barrel and action to fit it.

With pistol, it's at arm's length. For a right-handed shooter, the left arm is irrelevant, unlike in rifle where it's very relevant. Whereas rifle has the list of above considerations, with pistol you're worried about:
- Accuracy
- Trigger
- Weight
- Grip

Now the manufacturer can control the first 3 of those, and realistically the grip ends up being a bespoke home-custom job with modelling putty. You simply don't need so much factory-made variation in design to accommodate different people.

Steyr, Morini, Walther and Pardini have got a reputation for getting the first two absolutely right, and offer their pistols in a variety of weights, so finding one that fits the shooter is not an issue.

Without wishing to cast aspersions on the other guns (Anschutz make a great gun - their rifles are world beaters, as do FWB and the others), you're paying for the knowledge that these guns are time-proven Olympic champions if you do your bit. You also know their service teams will be at every major match. Do Benelli and FAS send service teams to all the World Cups, etc? (I don't actually know... do they? I would imagine Steyr get to more pistol matches than Benelli, so we're talking about substantial after-sales support).
When you've spent 4 years of your life dedicated to training, you want to know that:
(1) Your gun isn't going to break halfway through the Olympic final
(2) If it does, there is an engineer from the manufacturer stood 10 yards away at the back of the range

Also, if your Steyr breaks, the guy next door to you, and the one next to him probably have the same gun, and the RO probably shoots one when he's not officiating! Why go with something less common when the popular and well-supported one works so well. You just pick the model that's weighted right for you, customise the grip and crack on.

It not a case that the uncommon ones are inaccurate or unreliable, it's just if you're competing at an international level, the difference between £300 and £800 as a long-term investment is not that great. You need the right tool for the job. You can look at a Steyr and go "That works brilliantly. I've seen it work brilliantly. I know it will continue to work brilliantly."

And yeah, sponsorship plays a part as well

WHEW! All that makes me realize that I'll always be just a plinker: and always happy to be just a plinker!

Jim

[diathermic]

You know it's funny that these fancy guns boil down to fit, because most of us never get a chance to really test them all out. They're just to rare and expensive to get a crack at! Though I guess this goes towards the argument of infinite adjustability. Make a gun that will shoot straight and can be made to fit anyone perfectly and your set. Right? Though I do really appreciate the argument of having a gun that you'll likely have good support for, and you will see other people shoot as well, in case something does go wrong with your gun during a match. Good points.

[Hemmers]

Yeah, this is the issue with rifles. there are so many stocks available that it's difficult to get a go with all of them. To list a few:
Couple of different Anschutz Wood stocks
Anschutz Alu-stock
Anschutz "Precise" Alu-Stock
2x Feinwerkbau Alu-stocks
Walther Alu-stock
HPS Gemini
Bleiker
Evolution 600
MEC Project
Grunig and Elmiger

With a plethora of different barrels, actions, bloop tubes, etc, etc available to change the weight, balance and feel of each stock!

With AP, get a go with a Steyr, a Walther and a Morini and you'll have a pretty good idea of what works for you.


With an air pistol, you're customising the one point of contact (grip) anyway and tweaking the trigger, so it's really just a matter of picking one that weighs the right amount, fettling it and learning to shoot straight.

By comparison with rifle you have 5 points of contact - sling; left hand; right hand; shoulder; cheek.
Much more to take into consideration when selecting the stock, and then much more to get set up and replicate for each shoot.

[BigAl]

Hemmers, when it comes to rifle stocks you forgot the new Keppler. It's very good, a friend has one, it is really working well for him. Think there's 4 or 5 wood Anschutz stocks, but that dose include the BR one as well.


Alan

[hwtyger]

FWB, Hammerli etc AP are júst as good. They just lack the name, the advertising (marketing!) and sponsorship.
Its just like AR shooting yrs back it was all FWB. But walther anschutz, etc, just as good, but dont have the name in AR.
Allthough in smallbore, its all anschutz, but FWB etc, just as good. All same story.
You wont see much cheapo pistols at olympics though. I yr capable of thát level of shooting you also want the best pistols. So no rohms.
Not that Rohm etc is bad, they're fine pistols, but they lack the refinement, adjustments etc of the expensive one's.

At lower match classes it also plays a role that people tend to copy others.
'He shoots high scores with a steyr so I múst have a steyr too'..
And thats a pitty, cause what fits hím, might not fit yóu.

[urban winter]

I started shooting with a Rohm and after 3 months bought a Steyr. The trigger on the Steyr is streets ahead of the one on the Rohm and it was worth switching just for that, but the Rohm is a good gun. However they now cost nearly £500 and for 100-200 more you can have a secondhand Steyr.

I took my Rohm to the BPC Open competition at Bisley. I was the only one in the hall shooting other than Steyr or Morini.

U.

[mawibri]

For me the big plus with the steyr is the anti recoil weight and the smooth trigger. the gun just stays where i was pointing it if i get the trigger release right. Its just sweet to use.

I currently have an IZH 46M which I cannot out shoot yet fingers crossed I hope to get the LP10 soon enough.

Tried a Steyr at the range last week it just feels perfect and I know I cannot blame the gun for the 7's i shoot

[RobinC]

The real difference in the quality guns is the trigger, and the new electronics are another step forward. Most cheap guns can be made to fit, just takes more time and effort. No gun can compensate for holding errors, inadeqate sight picture, or bad trigger technique. I average low 90's at ten metres and prefer my Steyrs for match cards but I practice at home with a FAS 604 with near enough the same results and also shoot my old FWB65 (bought new in '72 when it was state of the art) with similar results. A comparison is the Ladies world record set in the early 70's by Nina Stolyarova 391 ex 400 with a FWB65, current world record 393 set with a Steyr, the target is 0.5mm smaller, but hey no real advance.
But, even for a lower level shooter I suspect you will be more consistant with one of the top makes. Buy the best you can afford.
Good shooting and have fun
Robin