Mystery airgun

[raven0171]

Hello,
This my first post though I have been a member for a while. I am 70 and have had an interest in guns since a kid and airguns in particular since my teenage years when I bought my first air rifle, a Webley Junior, after that a mk 3, an Original 50 and eventionally a BSA Airsporter S which I have still got. 15 years ago I caught the collecting bug, mainly air pistols and a few air rifles that caught my eye. This brings me to what forced me into attempting a try at posting a question to any other collectors who may read this.
A couple of weeks ago I bought an antique spring air pistol at an auction, they did'nt know what it was either but mentioned it had features similar to other guns. I have read and re-read that excellent book, THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF SPRING AIR PISTOLS but can't find it in that or any of my other books on the subject. It has characteristics of an Eisenwerke Gaggenau, namely the push-lever lock, break barrel cocking action. The butt, wood grips, trigger guard and spur are identical to the "Victoria" illustrated on page 79, the barrel is round into octagonal with " 6 "stamped on the top flat near the rear sight, on the bottom flat near the breech is stamped " ZGW ". Barrellength is 200 mm, smooth bored in 6mm cal. Overall length is 470mm. Traces of nickel remain on receiver corners, but no traces of blue elswhere, just a brown patina. Action still cocks and engages but not fired as I don't have any 6mm ammo.
Maybe someone will know if Eisenwerke ever licenced any other manufacturer to use the push- lever lock system, or better still know it's true identity, so, over to the experts amongst you please.

Bill.
ps have taken some photo's but don't know how to send them

[Chris1]

Bill,

Sounds interesting, sorry I can't help

I'm sure someone will offer an opinion soon

Chris

[hwvixen]

Sounds like a job for.......super Prof...come on ccdjg..

[edbear2]

HI Bill, you can't put photo's on here directly, but most people use Flikr or Photobucket....free websites that allow you to load your photos, then you copy and paste the link.....or if you like, you can e-mail them to me or another member, and I will host them for you in a flikr set (see link below)....my email is in my contact details...click on my name, and the info comes up



.

[ccdjg]

Well done on getting this gun. It is a real puzzler and I almost bid on it myself. It has also intrigued at least one expert German collector.

The similarity of the action to the Eisenwerke Gaggenau PP pistol and of the grip design to the later Eisenwerke Gaggenau Victoria is too much of a coincidence, so in my opinion the gun was made by that company. As no other example has ever been reported, and no catalogue entries for the 1890-1908 period show this gun, it was probably an experimental design following on from the PP pistol, where the original fancy and very expensive walnut fluted grip was simplified and modernised. This was probably still too expensive a system to produce and so the new grip design was kept and a break barrel action introduced, so giving the Victoria pistol. Even this was not very successful and I know of no actual examples of the Victoria, although it is well documented in catalogues.
Eisenwerke did not always stamp their guns with their crossed pistols logo, so the lack of any makers name is not too surprising, especially if this was an experimental design.

Here is a picture of the gun: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...keVictoria.jpg

and a picture of the original PP pistol: http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...Pairpistol.jpg

[hwvixen]

Marvelous...I love a happy ending.. any idea on value..?

[raven0171]

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

I've just created an album of the gun on Photobucket for your viewing pleasure.

The link is:
http://s1041.photobucket.com/albums/...Mystery%20Gun/

Bill

[Garvin]

Beautiful pistol and stunning photos, thanks for sharing these Bill.

John, I don't suppose you would have any use for a spare right arm (in vgc) would you? I'd be willing to offer mine in exchange for your PP pistol. I think it's the exquisite fluted grip that's done it. Please advise if interested.

[Chris1]

Wow a joy to behold! (was said in the old days).

So what is it's value?

[martini1215]

Thanks for sharing the photos with us Bill,its a beautiful pistol especially when you consider the machinery at and in the era that it was built shows real craftsmanship,congratulations on mastering photos too on here so quickly it takes some of us ages

[ccdjg]

Beautiful pistol and stunning photos, thanks for sharing these Bill.

John, I don't suppose you would have any use for a spare right arm (in vgc) would you? I'd be willing to offer mine in exchange for your PP pistol. I think it's the exquisite fluted grip that's done it. Please advise if interested.

Sorry Danny, I've got a draw full of right arms but only one of these pistols. There's an interesting story about this gun, as I first saw it an arms fair about 20 years ago at the time when no one knew what it was. Being strapped for cash and having the choice of buying it or a rare Titan, I went for the devil you know and bought the Titan. When I found out after some research a few years later what I had passed up I spent most of my leisure time kicking myself. And then about 10 years ago I had a phone call from a dealer asking me if I could identify a mystery gun, and from his description I realised that I was going to get a second chance at this beauty. Knowledge is power, so I was able to get it for a very reasonable price. The last one I saw for auction was at the 2003 Myron Kasok auction in the USA, and (not quite in as good condition as mine) it went for $5750 in auction, bought I believe by a certain Dr. Beeman, and about 10 times what I paid.

If Bill's gun could definitely be assigned to Eisenwerke Gaggenau, then given its extreme rarity the sky's the limit as far as value goes.

Nice pictures Bill - these might stimulate some more information from German collectors.

[hwvixen]

Well done Bill........

[Garvin]

The last one I saw for auction was at the 2003 Myron Kasok auction in the USA, and (not quite in as good condition as mine) it went for $5750 in auction, bought I believe by a certain Dr. Beeman, and about 10 times what I paid.

I just had a quick look through my Kasok auction catalogue and found it. Here's the entry.

[raven0171]

Thanks guys for all your comments and especially to ccdjg for his ID of the gun,
I was hoping it would be something along those lines or an intermediate or transisional model, I hadn't thought of experimental. If any had wondered about pic No 2 , the blemishes on the Lh side look to me like a makers mark that has been partly erased, and F over M scratched next to it,
or is it just my vivid imagination playing tricks.
Got a confession to make, my son did all the complicated bits sending the pics, I only took the photo's. Left to me, I'd still be working on it and you've have recieved nothing.


Bill.

[nice one]

well now what do you think its worth i wonder??