Hammerli ar 20

[elewis411]

Hi everyone.I was wondering if anyone has any experience of the above rifle which i think uses a lot of walther parts and seems quite good value at around £650.Would it be any good for an adult to start out in 10m shooting with,i am particularly interested in the quality of the trigger.Any info greatly appreciated...Thanks...Lewis...

[poison dwarf]

I cant fault the accuracy of my AR20 it will one hole at 30 yards as long as i do my bit. Can you use a 12 ft/lb gun in 10m competition? The gun feels heavy when you first pick it up but does balance exceptionally well when you shoulder it. The trigger isn't match quality imo., I havent played too much with the adjustment and there are a lot worse out there. You will need to "fettle" the cocking lever as it is a bit rough straight out of the box. Stripping and adjustments are very very easy and within most peoples capability. I got mine when I was at Bisley for £575.00. They sell it without the scope. hth.

[RobF]

there is a 10m version as well.

don't know what the trigger is like on that, on the FT version it feels a little soft, but then i'm comparing it with much more expensive rifles.

it's early days, but i think for the money it's a good choice to consider... you get a lot of adjustment... the FT version was accurate as many others right out to 50m when i used it... and i quite liked it's balance.

[rick]

There hasn't been a flood of them in the sales section. Couple of lads at the club have them and are quite happy using them.

[elewis411]

Thanks to the above for the info.I have to say i'm a little worried about the reliability of hammerli rifles as i seem to have heard and read some negative things about rifles they have produced in the past,maybe i would be better off continuing in my quest for a fwb 601/602/603 but they dont come up very often in left hand...Thanks...Lewis...

[RobinC]

Lewis
I have examined an AR20 but not shot one, I think you will find that it is a 10 mt rifle and the FT is derived from it not the other way around.
As for the quality, Hammerli is now owned by the Umarex group and although a similar design as the originals it is made at their factory at Arnsberg. A senior man at Walther (also part of the Umarex group who produce other Hammerli designs) told me that the original Hammerli's had quality issues which when they were a competitor was to their advantage, now as part of the group it's their problem, and one they have been serious about sorting.
The AR 20 is probably the best 10 mt rifle available new for the price, but its near enough half of the better rifles and you get what you pay for, and although it will no doubt be accurate the the trigger will be its weakness as the money on better rifles goes on better triggers. In my view you will get a much better rifle by spending the same money or less on a S/H rifle such as a FWB 600 series, Walther LGR, etc.
Good Shooting
Robin

[elewis411]

Lewis
I have examined an AR20 but not shot one, I think you will find that it is a 10 mt rifle and the FT is derived from it not the other way around.
As for the quality, Hammerli is now owned by the Umarex group and although a similar design as the originals it is made at their factory at Arnsberg. A senior man at Walther (also part of the Umarex group who produce other Hammerli designs) told me that the original Hammerli's had quality issues which when they were a competitor was to their advantage, now as part of the group it's their problem, and one they have been serious about sorting.
The AR 20 is probably the best 10 mt rifle available new for the price, but its near enough half of the better rifles and you get what you pay for, and although it will no doubt be accurate the the trigger will be its weakness as the money on better rifles goes on better triggers. In my view you will get a much better rifle by spending the same money or less on a S/H rifle such as a FWB 600 series, Walther LGR, etc.
Good Shooting
Robin

Hi robin.Thanks for that,you have confirmed exactly what i thought [but was'nt sure about ] i will continue in my search for a leftie fwb...Thanks...Lewis...

[RobinC]

Lewis
I don't know if you belong to a 10 mt target club, but if not the best bet is to join one. You will get the opportunity to be coached and to try other rifles, club guns, and also most genuine shooters will let you try their guns. As you probably know 10mt is shot standing and the technique is very specialised, this makes rifles very personal, some rifles are not easy to get on with particularly for beginers and especially for shorter people. The FWB 600 range for example, although excellent rifles fall into this category as they are quite muzzle heavy. In standing the ballance of a rifle is a critical factor and most people need to alter from the standard to get it right, on my wife's Walther LG 300 we had to put a half kilo of lead in the butt to get it balanced for her!
This is a long winded way of saying, go to a club and try first, most new people who arrive at our club with a newly purchased gun have bought the wrong thing.
Good shooting,
Robin

[elewis411]

Lewis
I don't know if you belong to a 10 mt target club, but if not the best bet is to join one. You will get the opportunity to be coached and to try other rifles, club guns, and also most genuine shooters will let you try their guns. As you probably know 10mt is shot standing and the technique is very specialised, this makes rifles very personal, some rifles are not easy to get on with particularly for beginers and especially for shorter people. The FWB 600 range for example, although excellent rifles fall into this category as they are quite muzzle heavy. In standing the ballance of a rifle is a critical factor and most people need to alter from the standard to get it right, on my wife's Walther LG 300 we had to put a half kilo of lead in the butt to get it balanced for her!
This is a long winded way of saying, go to a club and try first, most new people who arrive at our club with a newly purchased gun have bought the wrong thing.
Good shooting,
Robin

Hi robin.I actually shoot in a bell target league and currently use a walther lgr which i find very muzzle heavy,i have never picked up a fwb 600 series but there are quite a few in the league and like you have pointed out i really should try one before i spend my money.If i find them muzzle heavy too, then i would be better off trying to balance my walther although there does'nt seem to be any place to add weight to the butt ,bar for maybe drilling out some wood from behind the butt pad and replacing it with lead...Thanks for your very helpfull advice...Lewis...

[RobinC]

Lewis
If you think an LGR is muzzle heavy you could be sadly disapointed with a 600series.
Many people are loath to alter their rifles being concerned about resale but if its a shooting rifle why worry? Muzzle weight is affected by stock length and ballance position, is yours at the best for you? Possibly not.
This could get a bit long winded so I'll e mail you with some guidance.
Good shooting
Robin

[wonky donky]

Too much emphasis is put on getting the rifle to fit IMO & not enough put on getting the technical bits right. It's a bit like adding gimmicks in the hope your results will improve.

Your walther LGR was & still is a fine rifle as are most 10mtr guns produced past & present.

With the AR20 (10mtr version) you have a top class Barrel, regulator & air cylinder. They are not over complicated & capable of the same accuracy as ANY top flight 10mtr rifle. I have FWB 600 P70, 700, Walther LG300 Anatomic Hammerli 450 & AR20 in FT & 10mtr. With the right pellet selected for each rifle there is no difference in accuracy......It's a mute point!

The trigger is more than adequate, not up to FWB standard but adequate. The basic adjustments are there for reach, angle, let off etc..It does the job & some!

The stock's ok for right or left handers just by taking the cheek piece out & rotating it.

The pistol grip can be rotated so your wrist can be made straight & alignment to the trigger can be made.

The butt can be adjusted up or down & extended with spacers (supplied) if required.

The palm shelf/forend can be raised with spacers. (provided)

The sights adjust in the same way & direction as all the other manufacturers sights. The precision of adjustment may not be as fine as some & finer than others.

The overall weight of the AR20 is quite light.........but you can't take weight away.......but you can add it.

A good friend of mine who was British 10mtr Champion in 2001 I think it was, has shot 4 Bell match's with a AR20 to date with 4 possibles! The first one within 5/6hrs or receiving the rifle for evaluation, with just 10 or so shots to set the sights & one sighter prior to his first scoring shot!!!!!!!!

One top international shooter & multiple Olympic medalist who was coaching one of the home international sides made a statement & it was this:-

IF A SHOOTER CAN'T SHOOT 580 PLUS AT 10MTRS WITHOUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN BASIC STOCK ADJUSTMENTS( butt plate & cheek piece) & basic tuition & HAS THE INTENTION OF BECOMING A TOP CLASS SHOOTER THEY SHOULD TAKE UP ANOTHER SPORT!

[elewis411]

Lewis
If you think an LGR is muzzle heavy you could be sadly disapointed with a 600series.
Many people are loath to alter their rifles being concerned about resale but if its a shooting rifle why worry? Muzzle weight is affected by stock length and ballance position, is yours at the best for you? Possibly not.
This could get a bit long winded so I'll e mail you with some guidance.
Good shooting
Robin

Cheers robin.Thanks for the e-mail,it's really good of you to go to that much trouble.I will follow your good advice...Thanks again...Lewis...

[elewis411]

Too much emphasis is put on getting the rifle to fit IMO & not enough put on getting the technical bits right. It's a bit like adding gimmicks in the hope your results will improve.

Your walther LGR was & still is a fine rifle as are most 10mtr guns produced past & present.

With the AR20 (10mtr version) you have a top class Barrel, regulator & air cylinder. They are not over complicated & capable of the same accuracy as ANY top flight 10mtr rifle. I have FWB 600 P70, 700, Walther LG300 Anatomic Hammerli 450 & AR20 in FT & 10mtr. With the right pellet selected for each rifle there is no difference in accuracy......It's a mute point!

The trigger is more than adequate, not up to FWB standard but adequate. The basic adjustments are there for reach, angle, let off etc..It does the job & some!

The stock's ok for right or left handers just by taking the cheek piece out & rotating it.

The pistol grip can be rotated so your wrist can be made straight & alignment to the trigger can be made.

The butt can be adjusted up or down & extended with spacers (supplied) if required.

The palm shelf/forend can be raised with spacers. (provided)

The sights adjust in the same way & direction as all the other manufacturers sights. The precision of adjustment may not be as fine as some & finer than others.

The overall weight of the AR20 is quite light.........but you can't take weight away.......but you can add it.

A good friend of mine who was British 10mtr Champion in 2001 I think it was, has shot 4 Bell match's with a AR20 to date with 4 possibles! The first one within 5/6hrs or receiving the rifle for evaluation, with just 10 or so shots to set the sights & one sighter prior to his first scoring shot!!!!!!!!

One top international shooter & multiple Olympic medalist who was coaching one of the home international sides made a statement & it was this:-

IF A SHOOTER CAN'T SHOOT 580 PLUS AT 10MTRS WITHOUT ANYTHING OTHER THAN BASIC STOCK ADJUSTMENTS( butt plate & cheek piece) & basic tuition & HAS THE INTENTION OF BECOMING A TOP CLASS SHOOTER THEY SHOULD TAKE UP ANOTHER SPORT!

Hi there.I nearly bought an ar20,then i saw a picture of the main block bit that contains the trigger etc.this seems to have been cast in 2 seperate pieces and my main worry was how they anchored the barrel into this block and to be honest it reminded me of my crossman 2100 which has the same sort of arrangement.I dont doubt that the ar20 is a very accurate rifle though.I just think i will wait to see how they reliable they are before i think about buying one...Thanks...Lewis

[rem308]

These guys do them for £595.00 just got mine, best price I could find

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