Military trainers

[Jerry Cornelius]

I can feel a new interest coming on...

Does anyone have any good links or information to air rifles designed as military trainers, please? I know there were a couple of czech mauser-alikes, for example. I thought I read somewhere they were used by the Egyptian army but that sounds a bit random. (God, I hope I didn't dream it. How weird woudl that be?)

I don't mean look-alikes, I mean the ones that were actually used as trainers.

All info, chat etc will be very gratefully received.

[le frelon]

There have been quite a few over the years, ranging from the ww2 american BB McLashan sub machine gun used to train aircraft gunners and the, bit confused here, possibly Crosman or similar 'quick fire' BB used without sights and by the us Army, 1960's.
Others - Daisy feature at some point, stuff for the Egyptian army that you mention ( Hakim? ) so no dreaming going on! Obviously BSA Military Trainer, Webley Mark1 rifle ( probably ), a French pistol springs to mind as well.
Original did one, model 50 variant, and a very rare type based on the Swiss military KAR 31 with a Hammerli air rifle conversion fitted. I may be wrong but even as far back as 1860's the americans were training with a pistol, maybe Pope?
BSA gun layer, British Navy, ww1 and later.
Plenty of information available, try the regulars such as MicksGuns ( no connection honestly but I seem to keep mentioning him! ).He has a couple for sale.

Just remembered our old friends the Gems. I have a copy of the 1907 Complete Airgunner and there is plenty of evidence supporting their use.

The end is listless....soon there'll be some real experts along to add more.

Carl

[le frelon]

Quick update.
Mars115, Anschutz 275, Czech v35, v247, Bonna, Haenel 33, 310, Original T50,
Diana 58.

Clever, moi? nope, just remembered the search facility on here. Amazing place this!

Has anyone got a definitive list?

Carl.

[silva]

I recently saw an old advert from the war department in WW2 advertising for gifts of .177 airguns, either for the duration of the war or as an outright donation.

Cheers

[Rickenbacker]

I remember I bought a pair of Army surplus military trainers. Hardly worn them, because they hurt my toes... You're welcome to them, but somehow I don't think that's what you're after!

Seriously though, very nice airguns to collect

ATB
Phil

[exmoor beast]

In the advertising blurb of the time (1983) Air Arms reckoned the the hi- power was used as a military trainer but I never new whether that was just them trying to justify the styling or not. Anyone know if they were in fact used by a military body for training or was this "enhancemnent" for the wannabes?

[ccdjg]

No links unfortunately, but in the Airgunner magazines for June and July 2005 you will find good reviews by John Atkins on the Haenel 33, Tell 71, Czech VZ35 , Olympia and other air rifles used as military trainers. He also wrote a review on German air rifle trainers in the 1991 Airgunner Annual.

[Iain K D]

There is the Brazilian Rossi EB-79, which is a fairly basic break barrel springer, but in a wooden stock and pistol grip shaped to resemble the receiver and butt of a FAL, also fitted with a dummy magazine and a carrying handle. John Walter suggests that this was intended as a military trainer.

He also suggests that some of the Chinese guns made at the time (early - mid 1980s) which to our eyes might just look like sporting style springers, were in fact designed to bear a resemblance to military rifles and be used by cadets for training.

As well as the better known use of Daisy bb guns by the US army in the 1960s, I've a reference to the US Air Force also using Crosmans (doesn't say which model) for training, as follows "... drill with the Crosman air gun is a good deal more conventional [than the rapid reaction training the Daisy was used for]. He [the trainee] is schooled in the standard shooting positions, sight alignment and trigger squeeze."

Iain

[Hairydavey]

Bsa Meteor!

When I was in basic training at Pirbright in 1997 we were taught the basics of marksmanship principles with Bsa Meteors before we went onto the L85A1.

[Binners]

Diana Model 30.

Military trainer based on the Mauser rifle and used by the Hitler youth if I'm not egg.

[le frelon]

BSA Cadet and Cadet Major perhaps? Bit of a giveaway in the name.

Carl

[Josie & John]

There is the Brazilian Rossi EB-79, which is a fairly basic break barrel springer, but in a wooden stock and pistol grip shaped to resemble the receiver and butt of a FAL, also fitted with a dummy magazine and a carrying handle. John Walter suggests that this was intended as a military trainer.

He also suggests that some of the Chinese guns made at the time (early - mid 1980s) which to our eyes might just look like sporting style springers, were in fact designed to bear a resemblance to military rifles and be used by cadets for training.

As well as the better known use of Daisy bb guns by the US army in the 1960s, I've a reference to the US Air Force also using Crosmans (doesn't say which model) for training, as follows "... drill with the Crosman air gun is a good deal more conventional [than the rapid reaction training the Daisy was used for]. He [the trainee] is schooled in the standard shooting positions, sight alignment and trigger squeeze."

Iain

The Chinese trainers were based on the SKS and known as Lions and retailed around the £20 mark. One sold in the recent Wallis & Wallis auction for wait for it....£300!

It was apparently like new but even so. Must be a record for a Chinese airgun.

[Jerry Cornelius]

Looks like I've got some googling to do... I had no idea there were so many

Many thanks guys

[t1mm]

I think Henry Kranks in Pudsey West Yorks has one for sale!!

[Rob M]

I think the Daisy ones used by the US Army were part of a training system called "Quick Kill". They marketed the system to the public but changed the name to "Quick Skill".