pellet making

[magicniner]

Swaged - Corbin

[original23]

Hi, I read this thread a couple of days ago, and it's been going round in my head. I've come up with a couple of ideas!
Firstly, is it possible to obtain shot in .22 cal? or possibly just smaller, say .20? If so, what does one weigh compared to a pellet? Would it be an acceptable weight for standard sub 12 fp use. I don't suggest turning a rifled barrel into a BB gun, but could a thin 'patch' be used to give contact with the rifling, and make the ball spin? hence an undersized ball would be necessary. ideas?
Secondly, a snug fitting ball possibly combined with a non-metalic skirt or tail, say a nylon washer or cup that grips the rifling and imparts spin, something between a plastic wad used in a shotgun cartridge, and the nylon collar used on a steel pellet? Maybe a 'washer' superglued onto the shot?
I do remember that re-useable plastic pellets were available when I was young, - for use indoors! They didn't catch on though.
Probably way off the mark, but maybe something to think about
Thanks.
Charles

[magnummike]

in the late seventies you could get a .22 pellet mould called an lem spitzer . Cost of lead is not much as you can scrounge stuff like old pipes etc i use this to cast round ball for my muzzle loader . As for consistancy you can weigh them and batch them by weight any too heavy or light just drop em back in the pot and reuse . The pellet shape was bullet , you could run em through a sizer . I have seen a mould on here for 45 quid only this week

[oliver13]

Hi,

Just out of interest, here's a link to a thread with photos of the LEM moulds:
http://www.airgunbbs.com/showthread....-pellet-moulds

Back when they were on the market I heard they were pretty useless accuracy wise but did pack a punch if you could hit something - probably as 18wheeler has explained, to be stable from spin, a bullet shaped projectile has to be travelling at bullet shaped speeds.

At sub sonic speeds the Shuttlecock shaped pellet is best, for the same aerodynamic reasons a Shuttlecock is shaped that way?

I expect on the Long Range thread there will be a few people with anecdotal evidence of something like a Sussex Armoury Sabot, or those Godawful 'NATO Bullets', travelling sideways by the time they got to a 100M target - if in fact they ever got there?

Regards

[dvd]

Both waisted pellets and bullets spin when shot out of an air gun,
The difference is that the former is inherently stable due to two factors;
a)the pellet is usually nose-heavy
b)the tail is flared and the resultant drag at the rear stabilizes it to keep it flying nose first.The shuttlecock shape is perfect for dynamic balance. In fact the squash shuttlecock always rights itself and travels nose first when hit by the racquet.

The bullet has to rely just on spin to keep it stable in flight. Most air guns can not provide that kind of velocity to give enough spin to stabilize the bullet all the way to the target, resulting in open groups.

[scirroco]

if anyones interested ive got an original L.E.M MOULD 22 CAL £35 posted
rgds scirroco

[tunnelrat]

I'll take the mould Scirroco.

I'll send you a PM regarding payment.

Craig

[ballisticboy]

Both waisted pellets and bullets spin when shot out of an air gun,
The difference is that the former is inherently stable due to two factors;
a)the pellet is usually nose-heavy
b)the tail is flared and the resultant drag at the rear stabilizes it to keep it flying nose first.The shuttlecock shape is perfect for dynamic balance. In fact the squash shuttlecock always rights itself and travels nose first when hit by the racquet.

The bullet has to rely just on spin to keep it stable in flight. Most air guns can not provide that kind of velocity to give enough spin to stabilize the bullet all the way to the target, resulting in open groups.

Just a couple of things.
1) Flare drag does not stabilize a pellet, flare lift is the stabilizing moment just the same as fins.
2)Speed is nothing to do with gyroscopic stability, there are plenty of spin stabilized rounds much slower than pellets. It is the relationship between the spin rate, the moments of inertia, the pitching moments and the air density which determine the gyroscopic stability of a projectile.

[Daryll]

in the late seventies you could get a .22 pellet mould called an lem spitzer . Cost of lead is not much as you can scrounge stuff like old pipes etc i use this to cast round ball for my muzzle loader . As for consistancy you can weigh them and batch them by weight any too heavy or light just drop em back in the pot and reuse . The pellet shape was bullet , you could run em through a sizer . I have seen a mould on here for 45 quid only this week

I remember getting one of those back in the 70s... a couple of us spent hours making a handful of pellets, and as Oliver said, they were pretty inaccurate, probably due to inconsistancy, but if you hit something it disintegrated..

We gave up after a short while... too much effort...

[oliver13]

Just a couple of things.
1) Flare drag does not stabilize a pellet, flare lift is the stabilizing moment just the same as fins.
2)Speed is nothing to do with gyroscopic stability, there are plenty of spin stabilized rounds much slower than pellets. It is the relationship between the spin rate, the moments of inertia, the pitching moments and the air density which determine the gyroscopic stability of a projectile.

Wibble...

[lbl25a]

I used to cast all my own bullets when I had a .45 colt 1911 and still have the equipment. I have LEM Spitzer moulds in .22 and .25 but have never got any accuracy out of them. I think that the shape of the bullet is wrong.
I have thought of modifying the LEM moulds to form a boat tailed bullet but not tried it yet.
Tony

[Mof]

I also have a lem spitser mould in .22, I have made different brass heads for it in about 3/8" dia ball for catapult ammo also I made .177 heads for it, but the .177 was not very good. I can still put the .22 spitzer head back on it so its various calibre s all in one. accuracy was ok although looking through the scope the pellets seemed to spriral towards the target yet still seems ok. the back of the spitzer pellet is reasonably flat and shiny so when you are shooting away from the sun its like a tracer. No I am not selling it.

[lbl25a]

I also have a lem spitser mould in .22, I have made different brass heads for it in about 3/8" dia ball for catapult ammo also I made .177 heads for it, but the .177 was not very good. I can still put the .22 spitzer head back on it so its various calibre s all in one. accuracy was ok although looking through the scope the pellets seemed to spriral towards the target yet still seems ok. the back of the spitzer pellet is reasonably flat and shiny so when you are shooting away from the sun its like a tracer. No I am not selling it.

What sort of accuracy did you get with .22 Spitzer? What barrel? I was thinking of keeping the front part of the mould and making a new rear to give a longer bullet. It would be a lot heavier but using FAC velocities it might work.
Tony

[Mof]

I was using them in a .22 Sharp innova and from what I remember the accuracy was not bad although as I said they were very visible through the scope sort of taking a corkscrew flight but still hitting my tin cans. If its fine tomorrow I will get some out and shoot some at 25 yds and let you know the group size. I found out in the end that one may as well buy some heavy weight pellets like Bisley magnums and save the hassle of making them.

[Mof]

I did a test today and was surprised at how inaccurate they were, at 25 yds the 5 shot group fitted into a 2 and quarter inch circle with 3 close together at one inch spread and two "flyers making the group 2 and a quarter inch.

A 5 shot group shot immediately after, with Bisley Magnums was a ragged one hole group covering 3/8 of a inch, so that is why you might as well buy heavy pellets off the shelf. The air rifle was a s-200. The Lem pellets hit very hard so would be devastating on rats at closer range.