Lothar Walther vs. Smooth Twist

[Flashash]

If you look at the review of the FX Independence in Airgun Shooter you will see that the Smooth Twist Barrel grouped very badly. I wouldn't touch it.

[rodp]

One other thing that should be taken in to consideration regarding all the hype about smooth twist barrels is ease / cost of manufacturing. If they are (and the hype says they are) just externally formed without dies / cutting tools etc the speed, and therefore cost, of manufacturing will be greatly reduced.
When it comes to profit wording can be manipulated to mean a lot of things

Regarding all the articles about smooth twist, I would take it all with a pinch of salt at the moment. All the reviews and articles so far (that I have seen) have been in magazines and magazines rely on advertising (both current and future), read into that what you will.

I've never seen a smooth twist, let alone tried one, but when I do I'll bear in mind that there's a lot of external forces that can / will try to influence peoples opinion of them.

[Ian Johnstone]

they are MORE expensive to produce than standard barrels, the special 'blanks' (in fact specialist tubing) costs nearly as much as a LW rifled blank (ie. the unworked FX balnks cost nearly as much as the worked LW blanks).

One aspect of the SmoothTwist barrels is their seeming immunity to fouling & they dont cut the pellet resulting in a more uniform projectile.

The guy who made the video is in the States and shoots at FAC levels, he's had an Edgun for a while - they are often messed with to get max power, that could well be his problem here. Most American air gun users select pellets on a weight basis (for some reason ) I've tried to educate them about head sizes etc. but they tell me the makers dont provide the information, well that could also be an issue with his LW barrelled Edgun.

FX will not be making SmoothTwist barrels available to the public.

[Parabuteo]

they are MORE expensive to produce than standard barrels, the special 'blanks' (in fact specialist tubing) costs nearly as much as a LW rifled blank (ie. the unworked FX balnks cost nearly as much as the worked LW blanks).

One aspect of the SmoothTwist barrels is their seeming immunity to fouling & they dont cut the pellet resulting in a more uniform projectile.

The guy who made the video is in the States and shoots at FAC levels, he's had an Edgun for a while - they are often messed with to get max power, that could well be his problem here. Most American air gun users select pellets on a weight basis (for some reason ) I've tried to educate them about head sizes etc. but they tell me the makers dont provide the information, well that could also be an issue with his LW barrelled Edgun.

FX will not be making SmoothTwist barrels available to the public.

Fair Ian

But would the point not also be that the machinery and processes are considerably faster, and rejection rate lower (just supposition on my part there having been briefed on smooth twist) so this would offset the fact that the blank is more expensive (at the moment).

The system is still in development to an extent, so best wait and see

Moreover, the barrel is as stated, less prone to fouling, less pellet fussy, and may (or may not be) a match for match barrels....with much less variables.

It is also slightly more efficient in PCP form, which has to also be a usefull spin off.

Technological advances these days are seldom major leaps, but more often not a bit here and there.

Smoothtwist may tick all the boxes yet, particularly for mass production

[derekm]

To put cost of blanks into perspective, the Americans can have a Lothar Walther barrel machined and fitted to their gun for around $120, that's £75, for a one-off custom job. Now if the smooth twist barrel blank is twice as much as the Lothar, it should hardly make a huge difference to the total cost of a gun.

There's maybe a good grain of truth in Hares Ear's earlier post.

If it's more expensive, it must be better, even if there's no commercial need for it to be more expensive.

Flavour of the month works in most hobbies

[A685]

Was after one cos I thought have to change a caliber,but as much I ask the answer was not available yet.So we just dreaming.....

[Murphy]

If FX own the rights to this barrel what is the point in banging on about being able to own one.

Unless you buy an FX rifle you wont.

And IMO FX rifles are very overpriced and not that good.

And as for improving accuracy nearly all airguns have one hole accuracy now,

at the ranges most people use them anyway.

So my question is how can you get MORE accuracy than what's already available?!

[bengarzy]

One other thing that should be taken in to consideration regarding all the hype about smooth twist barrels is ease / cost of manufacturing. If they are (and the hype says they are) just externally formed without dies / cutting tools etc the speed, and therefore cost, of manufacturing will be greatly reduced.
When it comes to profit wording can be manipulated to mean a lot of things

Regarding all the articles about smooth twist, I would take it all with a pinch of salt at the moment. All the reviews and articles so far (that I have seen) have been in magazines and magazines rely on advertising (both current and future), read into that what you will.

I've never seen a smooth twist, let alone tried one, but when I do I'll bear in mind that there's a lot of external forces that can / will try to influence peoples opinion of them.

All published tests have been carried out with total honesty, your post suggests that the writers are lying and I influence the outcome by advertising my barrels in there magazines, give me the month and title of the magazine if that is the case or dont put in print something you may regret.
You can come and test SmoothTwist for yourself on our indoor range any time you like if it will make you happy, however I am sure your blinkered aproach will endure.

Ben

Ben

[rodp]

All published tests have been carried out with total honesty, your post suggests that the writers are lying and I influence the outcome by advertising my barrels in there magazines, give me the month and title of the magazine if that is the case or dont put in print something you may regret.
You can come and test SmoothTwist for yourself on our indoor range any time you like if it will make you happy, however I am sure your blinkered aproach will endure.

Ben

Ben

Would you like to point out where I have suggested anyone is actually lying or you have influenced anyone,the actual word was "manipulated". If you don't know what it means I'll get someone to explain. !
Can you please elaborate on my blinkered approach
Lastly, don't threaten me until you have bothered to absorb what's written.

[Hares Ear]

Time will tell.
If accuracy and consistency can be improved with a 'Smooth Twist Barrel' it will not be long before rifled barrels are being phased out.

At present, current production barrels are better than most shooters are capable of shooting them.
Many current airguns in production are easily capable of producing tiny groups now. At airgun ranges any improvement in accuracy alone will not be obvious. Improvement will only be discernable when the minute of angle opens up at ranges far beyond the capabilities of an airgun.
It will take far more than a bloke on a step ladder shooting into a bucket of water, with a handful of bent pellets to convince me of the need to ditch my collection.

[bengarzy]

Time will tell.
If accuracy and consistency can be improved with a 'Smooth Twist Barrel' it will not be long before rifled barrels are being phased out.

At present, current production barrels are better than most shooters are capable of shooting them.
Many current airguns in production are easily capable of producing tiny groups now. At airgun ranges any improvement in accuracy alone will not be obvious. Improvement will only be discernable when the minute of angle opens up at ranges far beyond the capabilities of an airgun.
It will take far more than a bloke on a step ladder shooting into a bucket of water, with a handful of bent pellets to convince me of the need to ditch my collection.

I dont think he was directly trying to influence you or anyone else to "ditch there collection", that would be pointless and stupid, something you seem to be an expert on.

[Terry D]

*Stands...repeatedly pings glass with spoon...*

Gentlemen of the BBS. May we be reminded that polite and respectful debate is the requirement here, as is a reasonable amount of subject knowledge should you decide to make less-than-subtle allegations of 'manipulation for profit'.

As ever, please think before you post and further intervention from the Mods will not be needed.

I thank you.

*Sits...glares...orders more port...*

[Hares Ear]

I dont think he was directly trying to influence you or anyone else to "ditch there collection", that would be pointless and stupid, something you seem to be an expert on.

As the reply I made this morning has been removed, I will repost it.

I am disapointed, I was eager for you to respond with tests and information, instead you have resorted to personal insults.

[baz]

I have been reading through this and I would like to add that I have tried three ST barrels in three different rifles and they were all outstanding in both .177 and .22

I have nothing to gain from saying this at all, I have been friends with Ben for quite a few years but I wouldnt say something is outstanding if it wasnt because for one thing people who bought them would be pretty pissed off with me!

These barrels have already won several BR comps in the US and those boys would soon complain if there was any doubt with performance at all!

When I first heard about the ST barrel I looked at the calendar to see if it was April 1 But this barrel works superbly, so those doubting/slagging it off should try one first before telling us all how rubbish they are

As for cheap to produce, I know that over £90K has been spent in development of just a few barrels, so if you think thats cheap then you must have some sort of salary

I dont know if the ST idea would work on Centrefire rifles what with the pressures involved but if it did then it would change CF shooting forever, imagine having high velocity rifles that dont need new barrel every 1000 shots, the custom barrel makers would all be jumping off cliffs And the joy of far, far, less barrel cleaning

I dont know how Ben thought of this one, but as hes a boffin who is always improving things I aint too surprised, one thing I would say is feel sorry for any car dealer that sells Ben a new car, because if it dont do what it says on the packet they will soon know about it, Audi for one

Smooth Twist is something I am surprised hasnt been snapped up by a big company who makes barrels and shelved, like they did with the everlasting light bulb decades ago

[Graham2]

Would you like to point out where I have suggested anyone is actually lying or you have influenced anyone,the actual word was "manipulated". If you don't know what it means I'll get someone to explain. !
Can you please elaborate on my blinkered approach
Lastly, don't threaten me until you have bothered to absorb what's written.

Of course you implied that the reviews were influenced, I'll quote post 19 below this so that people can see exactly what you said!