Lothar Walther vs. Smooth Twist

[bengarzy]

Time will tell.
If accuracy and consistency can be improved with a 'Smooth Twist Barrel' it will not be long before rifled barrels are being phased out.

At present, current production barrels are better than most shooters are capable of shooting them.
Many current airguns in production are easily capable of producing tiny groups now. At airgun ranges any improvement in accuracy alone will not be obvious. Improvement will only be discernable when the minute of angle opens up at ranges far beyond the capabilities of an airgun.
It will take far more than a bloke on a step ladder shooting into a bucket of water, with a handful of bent pellets to convince me of the need to ditch my collection.

I dont think he was directly trying to influence you or anyone else to "ditch there collection", that would be pointless and stupid, something you seem to be an expert on.

[Terry D]

*Stands...repeatedly pings glass with spoon...*

Gentlemen of the BBS. May we be reminded that polite and respectful debate is the requirement here, as is a reasonable amount of subject knowledge should you decide to make less-than-subtle allegations of 'manipulation for profit'.

As ever, please think before you post and further intervention from the Mods will not be needed.

I thank you.

*Sits...glares...orders more port...*

[oneseven]

I for one think there will be a great market for these barrels on 1022s if they offer any greater accuracy. So many of the aftermarket barrels come from the U.S. at great expense, so the market would eat a homegrown product that shows an improvement over the stock ruger barrel.

There are lots of arguements over the meaning of "pellet fussy" with respect to airgun barrels, but there is no doubt in my mind that a .22lr barrel which would cope better with different manufacturers ammunition would be a real advantage.

[Hares Ear]

I dont think he was directly trying to influence you or anyone else to "ditch there collection", that would be pointless and stupid, something you seem to be an expert on.

As the reply I made this morning has been removed, I will repost it.

I am disapointed, I was eager for you to respond with tests and information, instead you have resorted to personal insults.

[stillair1]

What has got us fac air lads keen is the possibilites of a non fouling barrel which is the achiilies heel of normal rifled barrels.

neil

[baz]

I have been reading through this and I would like to add that I have tried three ST barrels in three different rifles and they were all outstanding in both .177 and .22

I have nothing to gain from saying this at all, I have been friends with Ben for quite a few years but I wouldnt say something is outstanding if it wasnt because for one thing people who bought them would be pretty pissed off with me!

These barrels have already won several BR comps in the US and those boys would soon complain if there was any doubt with performance at all!

When I first heard about the ST barrel I looked at the calendar to see if it was April 1 But this barrel works superbly, so those doubting/slagging it off should try one first before telling us all how rubbish they are

As for cheap to produce, I know that over £90K has been spent in development of just a few barrels, so if you think thats cheap then you must have some sort of salary

I dont know if the ST idea would work on Centrefire rifles what with the pressures involved but if it did then it would change CF shooting forever, imagine having high velocity rifles that dont need new barrel every 1000 shots, the custom barrel makers would all be jumping off cliffs And the joy of far, far, less barrel cleaning

I dont know how Ben thought of this one, but as hes a boffin who is always improving things I aint too surprised, one thing I would say is feel sorry for any car dealer that sells Ben a new car, because if it dont do what it says on the packet they will soon know about it, Audi for one

Smooth Twist is something I am surprised hasnt been snapped up by a big company who makes barrels and shelved, like they did with the everlasting light bulb decades ago

[severnsider]

As said above, an interesting thread but perhaps almost pointless until such time as the ST barrels become widely available in bores, lengths and diameters that will permit individuals to buy and fit (or have fitted) them to their own actions. There seems to be a number of people on this forum who have tried ST barrels, but I'm getting the feeling that unless you buy an FX rifle they are not generally available (although it appears that BR shooters in the States have a source).
I think it would be helpful if someone in the know (Ben, I presume?) would post a list of who is presently offering ST barrels to the general public and in what sizes, that way the detractors could have a look for themselves. I didn't find Terry Doe's recent magazine article of much use other than to give the impression that a final design for the ST has yet to be decided as tests are continuing with different twist rates etc.
Are these barrels in widespread use? I'm confused........ but that's easily done

[Cam.]

As said above, an interesting thread but perhaps almost pointless until such time as the ST barrels become widely available in bores, lengths and diameters that will permit individuals to buy and fit (or have fitted) them to their own actions. There seems to be a number of people on this forum who have tried ST barrels, but I'm getting the feeling that unless you buy an FX rifle they are not generally available (although it appears that BR shooters in the States have a source).
I think it would be helpful if someone in the know (Ben, I presume?) would post a list of who is presently offering ST barrels to the general public and in what sizes, that way the detractors could have a look for themselves. I didn't find Terry Doe's recent magazine article of much use other than to give the impression that a final design for the ST has yet to be decided as tests are continuing with different twist rates etc.
Are these barrels in widespread use? I'm confused........ but that's easily done

Good post.

Cam

[baz]

Theres already a waiting list I imagine, I have ordered two from Ben but I have no idea when they will be done

[Andrewjames]

Theres already a waiting list I imagine, I have ordered two from Ben but I have no idea when they will be done

how much they cost, i might give one a go aswell

[Murphy]

how much they cost, i might give one a go aswell

You might need to know the diameter and length they come in 1st?!

[Parabuteo]

Good post.

Cam

To be fair Cam, and Severnsider, I dissagree, though not with any venom

I dont claim to be an authority on ST barrels. Ben has very kindly fed me the odd titbit, which I keep to myself...you never know.

I have not tested an ST barrel...firstly because I would immigrate immediately, and secondly I cant shoot for shit so would'nt know a smooth twist from a 105!!

But even a casual read of the latest AGW should tell you that the barrel is still under development in several areas, twist rate etc.

Although they are being used on certain FX guns, I would guess that Ben will be testing the concept to death before releasing it screaming and kicking onto the general market.

He aint daft, and if he was ready, I would think there would be a smooth twist solution for everything and anything.

The barrel does seem to offer some real advances in terms of accuracy, and flexibility in terms of pellets you can use. It is also reputed to be more efficient and the pellets a bit quieter in the air, but the real genius is what it means in terms of time and rejection savings to the manufacturer.

In house barrel making may once more become viable.

As for binning my current collection...WTF. But in the unlikely event the barrels wear out, at least there may be an alternative replacement

[severnsider]

And no offence taken, Para! Thanks for your comment. I (and others I am sure) am fascinated by the product but remain confused to an extent by it being available to FX and to US BR shooters yet as you say, and according to the magazines, development work continues. Perhaps development work continues between BT and FX in tandem. FX appear to produce the barrels for their own rifles, but BT will eventually produce (or have them produced) for other manufacturers and/or as after-market replacements for a variety of rifles?
I dunno - hence my asking the question!
Cheers,
Mike

[simmmo]

And no offence taken, Para! Thanks for your comment. I (and others I am sure) am fascinated by the product but remain confused to an extent by it being available to FX and to US BR shooters yet as you say, and according to the magazines, development work continues. Cheers,
Mike

Might get some answers here Also might need to clarify with the FX shooters whether they are rifled or ST as I believe that both may be in use.

Great thread glad I don't drink and type anymore. PMSL at some of the toy chucking.

My take on it is this like a few have said before or nearlly said/typed. Smooth Twist may lead to less rejection of the currently supplied rifled barrels by the assemblers of production air rifles and will possibly be an improvement on some that get through quality control and into our gun cabinets. Therefore saving the makers money and us frustration. There is nothing worse when benchrest shooting than a mediocre barrel when coupled with a high end precharged air rifle. 10x 10x 10x 10x 6.

I cannot see how however a truely accurate rifled barrel can be bettered by one, equalled maybe. Lap lap lap.

Monkey