Diana 58

[Pagoda113]

For those who may have seen this on a wellknown Yorkshire dealers website, beware. It is listed as version 2 and priced as if mint. It is in fact version 3 which is worth considerably less and one of the cracks in the stock (which are mentioned) is serious, extending from the cocking lever slot to the trigger guard screw. At most worth £500-£550 IMHO, but they won`t negotiate, refusing to acknowledge that a version 3 is not worth a version 2 price.
So, if you are travelling any distance to see it, bear in mind that you are likely to be disappointed.

[Garvin]

For those who may have seen this on a wellknown Yorkshire dealers website, beware. It is listed as version 2 and priced as if mint. It is in fact version 3 which is worth considerably less and one of the cracks in the stock (which are mentioned) is serious, extending from the cocking lever slot to the trigger guard screw. At most worth £500-£550 IMHO, but they won`t negotiate, refusing to acknowledge that a version 3 is not worth a version 2 price.
So, if you are travelling any distance to see it, bear in mind that you are likely to be disappointed.

This rifle has also been reblued, Kranks tell me, although they say it looks like it was in very good shape beforehand.

I have to disagree that a series 3 is worth considerably less than a series 2. Maybe a little, but all three series are rare. In fact, the series 2 rifles were made for much longer (around 15 years) and very likely in somewhat greater numbers than the series 3s (4 or 5 years). I have only ever seen one series 2 come up for sale on egun and not a single series 3.

I also don't think the Kranks 58 is priced as mint. If that were the case they would be asking for well over £1000. As it is, it is probably over-priced, but you might have to wait a long time for another.

[Pagoda113]

Check out the Blue Book on the differences between versions. First 95% $1250, second 95% $1150, third 95% $900. That is $250 or about £160 difference and £160 from the ask of £770 makes £610 which is a top end price in relation to the cracks in the stock. An experienced friend of mine was also taken aback by their attitude and he`s done business with them in the recent past.
I for one won`t be spending petrol money to visit them again.

[Josie & John]

That's actually not a bad price if you don't mind a refinished gun. Personally I prefer original finish, even if well worn. Had it been original, I would have been tempted. Last Series 3 I saw was very worn overall and price was very similar to this one.

John

[Garvin]

Check out the Blue Book on the differences between versions. First 95% $1250, second 95% $1150, third 95% $900. That is $250 or about £160 difference and £160 from the ask of £770 makes £610 which is a top end price in relation to the cracks in the stock. An experienced friend of mine was also taken aback by their attitude and he`s done business with them in the recent past.
I for one won`t be spending petrol money to visit them again.

Hi John. Yes, I see how you have made your calculation as to value, but using a questionable figure (ie. Beeman's) as a benchmark is bound to lead in strange directions! I often wonder what his Blue Book valuations are based on -- perhaps extrapolated from one or two sales made years ago, mixed with some fresh supposition, seasoned with speculation, stirred into mush and served with a side order of arrogance?

There's no doubt that the first, "military pattern" Diana 58 should be more valuable than the others -- the rifles were only made for a couple of years and probably in very small numbers. But IMO the differential between the first and second series should be greater, and probably that between the second and third series smaller.

As for the attitude of the seller, it doesn't surprise me. My experience of established shops that sell vintage airguns is generally not a happy one. But I suppose it's up them what price they put on a given rife and whether they want to negotiate.

When I see some of the prices that JCMilitaria apparently get for their vintage wares, it makes me think there's some sort of parallel market out there in which quite seriously wealthy people are willing to pay sums that most of us would think excessively high!

[hwvixen]

Strewth Danny...don't mince your words will you.....thats about as "animated" as i've seen you get....just watch you don't get...zapped for being so..racey..

[Pagoda113]

"A questionable figure (ie Beeman`s)" Now in normal circumstances I would agree with your assessment of "The Blue Book", but during the discussion at the dealers, they themselves consulted "The Blue Book" regarding the differences between the versions. However they would not acknowledge the differences in values.
With respect to JC, a friend of mine who has sold to them believes they have a strong export market for good boxed classics to Germany. With the £-Euro rate as it is , their prices appear reasonable in the Eurozone. Plausible?

[slug-gun]

Blue Book values in my experience are all too often completely meaningless. The correlation between various grades of condition is never as simplistic and as even as implied by Blue Book values.
A rare rifle in mint condition might be worth ten times the value of one in average condition for example, such is the difficulty in finding rare items in flawless condition. Such is not expressed by the Blue Books.

I have found that collectors often operate in different spheres - some only buy at auction; some only at arms fairs; some only from dealers; some only from boot sales - not many scour the whole market place.
This is a reason why prices achieved by sellers can vary enormously for the same thing as it depends in what forum they are being sold.
How much success for example would the dealers mentioned have if they offered their goods for sale on the BBS at the same prices as they offer in their shops or on their websites?

[Pagoda113]

Let`s return to the facts. A Diana 58 is being described as a version 2. It is not, it is a version 3. The price for the alleged version 2 is £775. The dealer actually used "The Blue Book" for price comparison purposes. The dealer, because he originally believed the rifle in question to be a version 2 said that he had priced it accordingly. He was then acquainted with his own "Blue Book " price differential. He maintained that as he originally thought it was a version 2, he would not be prepared to alter the price to the appropriate level.
So if you are prepared to pay the £775 asking price from an intransigent dealer for a refinished Diana version 3 58 with a seriously split stock, then head for Tykeland with all speed.
It is, at the time of posting, still described as a version 2. Draw your own conclusions.