### Circa 1888 ????? ###

[Old Bull]

Gem Circa 1888 ?????

Could this rifle really be this old? I was told that it was made in 1888 but I cannot find any information on the rifle itself. If anybody could verify this date, it would be much appreciated. The rifle is .25 calibre with a smooth bore barrel. It has the number 24 stamped twice on it – once on the trigger guard and once on the breech. Also, any further information about this Gem would be most welcome. Thanks in anticipation. Old Bull

[I. J.]

Better ask BTDT. He was around shooting then.

ATB
Ian

[Arch.Stanton?]

Well Gems were made in Europe and followed on after the original American designs made by Quackenbush [ which started out late in the last century at the time you mention ] . Your Gem is a T bar latch full oct. barrel - have seen adverts from contemporary shooting catalogues showing these being around the same time as Lincoln Jefferies . These Gems were made for many years and unless stamped with a makers mark or even a British importers stamp [ 'A.B. Arbenz '- is a common name/stamp - being a Birmingham based gun retailer who imported these Gems for 40 odd years ] , they are notoiriously difficult to date ...lots of fun collecting mind as eveyone is different it seems . Once you've hit the 40 figure its time to start collecting something else .

ADDENDUM
Fellow member Gunspring has an original Quackenbush up for sale here - with photos in Sales . Its nice to be able to compare the grandaddy of all spring airguns , with the European made Gem .

[Gareth W-B]

Could this rifle really be this old?

Yes, but don't take my word for it, have a chat with this chap: http://www.airgunbbs.com/member.php?97682-DCL_dave and take a look at the link in his sig.

[ogilkes]

Yours might be a Jean Marck (Belgium). Yes plenty of 1880s Gems still in use. I have one that makes a good 7fpe and a later Diana omodel that will do 9 on a good day!

[hwvixen]

Are yes...but that's in the rairisfied atmosphere of Narfalk...so it don't count....did you ever get that "baby" up n working Ollie...

[torrens]

Seconding Ogilkes' suggestion this looks identical to a "T"bar Jean Marck Gem I had a while ago, except yours is much shinier! The 1888 patent stamping is sometimes assumed by sellers to be a manufacturing date. The JM Gems were made from the late 1880's to the 1930's with very little change. Mine was the large No 3 in .177 and did a stonking 8ft lbs.
torrens

[DCL_dave]

Gem Circa 1888 ?????

Could this rifle really be this old? I was told that it was made in 1888 but I cannot find any information on the rifle itself. If anybody could verify this date, it would be much appreciated. The rifle is .25 calibre with a smooth bore barrel. It has the number 24 stamped twice on it – once on the trigger guard and once on the breech. Also, any further information about this Gem would be most welcome. Thanks in anticipation. Old Bull

Hi Old Bull,

What a cracker!, thanks for posting the pics

Has Ollie, and Torrens have already said, it is a Marck Gem, but it's difficult to tell which model it is without knowing the weight and length?, even then it may be slightly different from other similar models...but from the shape of the breechblock it looks like a standard model No1 or No2, these were available in 4.5, 5.5, 6.5 and even 8mm calibre!

Marck Gems have been seen with patent marks from 1888 (Hiller - page 132), yours looks like it has the "DSE 3.12.91" patent stamp on the T-bar?, so it'll be after that date...and the factory was still open into the 1930's so it is difficult to date it accurately. The number 24 indicates early but then these are nearly always seen with a low-ish numbers so I'm unsure if they are actually serial numbers (all parts will be stamped with this number) I have two No2 models that can be fairly accurately dated to the 1920's, they carry the numbers 45 and 47 in the usual places, but they also have the numbers 6450 and 1634 respectvely, stamped on one of the flats of the octagonal barrel, so the numbers are ambiguous...

For more information on these, including pics of other Marck Gems, old Marck catalogues, etc, have a look at the link in my sig.

Cheers,
Dave