zzzzzzzzzzzzz. Boring troll.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz. Boring troll.
Walther CP-2 Match, FAS 604 & Tau 7 target pistols, Smith & Wesson 6" & 4" co2 pistol, Crosman 1377,
Baikal IZH 53 pistol, Gamo CFX Royal,177, Umarex SA-10 CO2 pistol.
I am sorry but I agree with Gregory's sentiment completely - I see this attitude all too often at club and squad level, and Derek I must say your attitude is clearly testament to this - can I point out that the OP asked 'is there space in competitive (and I emphasize competitive) pistol shooting' and the simple answer is no - look at the entries to the last 8 years of world cups if you don't believe me - guess what, no CO2 - so either the 'Dad's Army' pistol shooters of this country know something everyone else doesn't OR the 'it will do for me mentality because I only do xy or z' is rife,
And I won't be taking any requests to stop 'trolling' because my opinion differs from yours seriously - I would expect you to respect anyone's opinion as they would yours without resorting to bad language!
Lee
Please tear carefully along the perforation.
Lee, I wouldn't class your posts as trolling; you have an opinion, which you put forth in a polite and correct manner. The other poster's insulting manner and general sarcasm appears to fall into the trolling/arguing for the sake of it category.
Regarding the highest levels of competition, where advantages can come at microscopic level you may well be right.
However, most target shooting and competition is at a much lower level, hence the view that there is still a place for the economies and convenience of CO2, as there is for "bits of Russian tractors" so disparagingly and inaccurately stated by our trolling acquaintance.
Top level comps. aside, technique is probably more important than the tools involved and technique can be learned with "the bits of tractor powered by fart gas".
I would imagine that the likes of Mick Gault could cakewalk a County comp with a Tau 7, though I could of course be mistaken.
Not everyone can afford Steyrs et al, nor can many clubs afford a brace to use as club guns for newcomers.
There is a place for everything. No-one is suggesting that CO2 is the Holy Grail, but to dismiss it out of hand for ALL serious and competition shooting is, with respect, a bit OTT (IMO).
You have every right not to agree, but I think that technique and mechanics are more important than propellant.
Walther CP-2 Match, FAS 604 & Tau 7 target pistols, Smith & Wesson 6" & 4" co2 pistol, Crosman 1377,
Baikal IZH 53 pistol, Gamo CFX Royal,177, Umarex SA-10 CO2 pistol.
'CO2 wasnt good enough' LOL!!! Than HOW did they shoot 396 WR 96 with it????
I always enjoy looking at people who think that co2's ,which they shot world records, Olympics, championships etc with, arent good enough for 95% of us shooters who dont come NEAR those results. They shot 396 with a Pardini CO2 pistol, the world record in 1996. Yeah, maybe now its 399, geez, ANYONE of you shoots NEAR 396 scores?? Nope, you dont. So do you NEED pcp? No you dont. Is co2 good enough? Yes it is.. When you shooting around 380's THAN you have a reason to speak and say you nééd pcp. Otherwise... And NO I'm NOT a co2 holy-grail fan!! I'm just realistic..I have a Tau 7, co2, my favourite, and also a steyr pcp, a morini pcp, a hammerli pcp and a aeron pcp. Do I shoot better with the pcp's? No I dont.
Why do you see all pcp? Cause its a hype, cause people buy what the neigbour has, and cause people like to try to buy results instead of training properly. I can shoot in the 360's, but if you give a fellow pistol shooter at our club, an ex champ, a FWB 65, he'll outshoot me. As simple as that..
He himself shot in our countries highest pistol class in the top 10. With? A walther CP2 co2. Pcp's may have extra features: recoil dampener, extra adjustability, etc..But thats about it. Inherent accuracy isnt better. LARGEST disadvantage with co2 was NOT that it wasnt accurate enough, nor temperature, it was weight/balance change when co2 gets less!
ATB,
yana
Hi Yana,
Your facts are probably absolutely correct ( I have not checked the scores you refer to - but have no reason to question them), and so are your observations.
I like to shoot FWB 65 and 80 pistols now and again and have no doubt that in the correct hands these old "springers" could still beat most club level shooters and even higher level shooters too.
I also like to shoot various CO2 match pistols and know for sure that in the right hands they too can beat most regular PCP shooters at almost every level.
However, shooting my newer PCP pistols is a lot easier and less hassle. No mechanical cocking needed, and I can clearly see how much air is left at any time in the cylinder, and although generally bigger in size they are also usually ligher in weight.
As the manufacturers experience has increased over the years, we gain other benefits such as better fitting grips (for me at least) simple cocking and more choice of almost everthing
The top level shooters can also rely on some manufacturers support if they need some "on the spot" help when competing away from home - and this can only be gauranteed with a pistol that is in current production.
Every type of match pistol has its place as far as I am concerned - all give pleasure to the users at various levels from back-yard to international competition and all should be encouraged at club level.
What we need is more target shooters to keep our minority and shrinking sport alive for future generations, so "is there room for CO2 in target/competition pistol shooting?" - yes of course there is - and springers too. Are they still at the peak of excellence - I think not - but who cares - the question was "is there room" for them - and the answer has to be YES.
Last edited by zooma; 17-07-2011 at 03:21 PM.
Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.
Is it advisable to remove the CO2 cylinder when the pistol is not in use /overnight, I have a FWB C25 ?
Evo 10 Compact.
Most of the club shooters I know screw the replenished cylinder onto the pistol, but not enough to tighten it fully until it is used next - especially if the gun is not going to be used for some time.
Some also unscrew the cylinder a little at the end of the days shooting to put the pressure back onto the cylinders own valve and not the pistol valve. This will give a very slight loss of gas as the cylinder disconnects from the weapon - but nothing to worry about..
Shooting on a regular basis I think it probably makes no difference, but when a gun is to be left unused for several weeks some CO2 loss has been noticed and this can be reduced or avoided by not having the cylinder fully tightened as descibed above.
It is also worth noting that there is no need to overtighten the CO2 cylinder to the weapon - just enough for the valve to open and for the pistol to work OK.
My advice when shooting is to fully tighten the cylinder initially by hand ( not using any overdue force) and then back it off by a half turn or so to avoid any problems with the cylinder becoming difficult to remove later. Also, a very small dab of the Feinwerkbau grease on the CO2 cylinder thread every now and again works wonders by keeping everything working smoothly.
Rossendale Target Shooting Club. Every Tuesday and Thursday evening 7 - 10pm.
Airgun Repairs, Bespoke Airgun Smithing and Precision Engineering Services
http://www.magic9designltd.com
I have to say how entertaining some of the recent hystrionics on this thread have been! Complete with a few prejudices on both sides, but most amusing!
The facts are clear, PCP is no more accurate than Co2 and the world level scores show that, but then neither is significantly more accurate in pistols than a spring! Nina Stolyarova shot 391 air pistol in 1972 for the ladies world record with a FWB 65, todays record 393! OK the target is a tad smaller 0.5mm, big deal! I can't remember the mens record from the FWB 65 days but I think it was 395 ish. Now of course the mens match is 60 shot, but realistically the scores have not moved since then despite the advance in technology, so should we all still use spring guns?
The fact is, a 15 year old Merc or BMW cruises at autobahn speeds as well as a new one, but by choice you'd buy a new one. The same applies to the older but class pistols, a Co2 Steyr shoots as well as a PCP one, until recently we had a club one so I can verify that, we have now converted it to PCP for convenience and so that we could reduce the weight with compact cylinders for juniors, it still shoots just as well, no better, no worse.
The failings of the eastern bloc pistols was not the propellent it was the standard of triggers, grips, ballance, and sights, but then to be fair to them none were sold at high prices or aimed at the top end of the market, and they met their target niche perfectly.
The answer on "is there a place for Co2" is simple, its yes. But if we have the choice and the funds we go for the most recent technology and that is PCP. We buy new tech pistols for the same reason we buy new cars. Could the top shooters shoot the same with Co2? Of course they can, and also could with a spring FWB65, but they buy by choice modern PCP's.
Any one who has the tecnical ability and the degree of dedication to succeed at the top level could if they chose to shoot with one of the later top class Co2 pistols, Steyr, Walther, FWB, could perform at the highest level, the fact is, they don't, not becuase the can't, but because they choose to use PCP's because they are modern technology.
Good shooting,
Robin
Walther KK500 Alutec expert special - Barnard .223 "wilde" in a Walther KK500 Alutec stock, mmm...tasty!! - Keppeler 6 mmBR with Walther grip and wood! I may be a Walther-phile?