Is there room for CO2 in target/competition pistol shooting

[Hemmers]

Blimey, people got very agitated over this.

Yes, CO2 will shoot very well. A good CO2 gun will outshoot many shooters.
However. Apart from counting shots, its difficult to estimate when you are running out, and whilst the CO2 caplets are fine, the infrastructure to support bulk cylinders is poor at best. Plus the obvious issues with changes in temperature/pressure.

My club has a dive tank in the corner of the range. So does the Lord Roberts Centre. An old club of mine was next to a dive club and could get at-cost refills.
It simply bears no comparison compared to bulk CO2.
If you want to shoot CO2, you're essentially on your own. Some people do shoot CO2, as evidenced by the empty capsules in the range bin. However, for 60 shot matches, they may not go the length in the same manner as a bulk cylinder will. A 12g capsule should get you 80 shots, but mileage will vary from gun to gun.

If a member of my club asked for advice on whether to get a CO2 or PCP target gun, I'd tell them PCP without a second's hesitation. Why? Well, they can fill it up in the club, there are lots of other people with them (i.e. support, advice, trying guns before they buy), they are well supported from grass-roots all the way up to Olympic level.

[Gregory]

I don't mind moving on, but let the individual decide what to shoot. Shooting springer's would be a good idea, but in a class of their own.

The cost today puts a lot of people off and I cannot see shooting getting any favours off the Government, look at the Olympics fiasco.

How many world class shooters does Britain have?

And what type of facilities do other countries have compared to us, you can only get out what you put in and the infrastructure in the U.K. just does not encourage people to shoot.

My local club is run by a committee stuck in the dark ages, which is why I shoot a lot more clays than pellets.

By the way Allegros were crap.

Without changing topic, the biggest issue facing shooting is not what you use, or what the government think of us, but the average age of our shooters and our committees. Clubs are dying out because quite literally the members are dying off!

To encourage youngsters we need to get them caught up in the same spirit that continental youngsters have. Fresh new pcp rifles and pistols from walther ahg, fwb etc steyr etc are appealing to the young and help them respect the weapon and the skill needed to use them.

To many clubs are just meeting places for grumpy old gits and this obsession with old weapons (that were current when the users were competitive 15 - 20 years ago) are no inducement to kids of the Ipad age.

Hemmers has identified the technical weaknesses but the issue really is one of the state of mind.

As for infastructure, your right we dont have much in the way of first class facilities and this needs changing but for the lords sake; if were still using Co2 pistols what right have we to object to facilities? New Millenium, New Century, New Thinking.

[Old Fart]

What you say is very true about clubs today and the age of the members, at the small range near where I live I would put the average age of the members is well over 50.

But you find this in most types of shooting, last Sunday I went to a clay shoot in Scotland for the first time.

Apart from two lads with their Dad the average age was over 50...again.

I live in a village surrounded by countryside in the last twenty years or so I have never seen lads walking around with air rifles like I used to, today the armed police would more than likely turn out.

Guns are bad news today, my wife works at a school, they discourage kids from "shooting" each other when playing games.

Have you tried to involve young adults in shooting, it's very difficult and quite expensive, most club's want subs' up front even before they start, that's if you can find young people who want to shoot, they mostly want to play computer games.

Re; Co2 I posted to see what the reply would be and yes PCP is the way forward but it does not matter what you shoot with because if you have no members then you have no clubs to encourage the youth of today to join in a sport for all.

I have a friend who is a World Champion shooting a muzzle loading rifle, when he shoots abroad, the whole town joins in...can you ever see that happening in England?

[Gregory]

I cannot, never could except for perhaps a few years at the turn of the 19th / 20th century when small bore started to take off

We will always be a minority sport, but that doesnt mean we cant be a healthy minority. At the moment we face a real crisis, over the next 10 - 15 years club secretarys, committee members and league scorers / oganising officer are going to start retiring / dropping.

That means there are precious few youngsters entering the sport at the bottom and precious few experienced ex shooters / managers at the top of the sport.

Some clubs are thriving but they are few and far between. I think its shape up or ship out for shooting sports right now.

[Old Fart]

Gregory,

We were thrown a lifeline recently named NATTS, but what happened, the various organisations could not agree on a policy.

They all like to be in their own ivory towers wielding a little bit of power here and there, but are they bothered about "The Bigger Picture", I think not.

You know I am glad that I was born in 1949 because at least I had the chance and I grasped it with both hands to shoot all sorts of different firearms. What chance has anyone got in the next fifty years.

Sorry not to mention Co2

[Gregory]

Gregory,

We were thrown a lifeline recently named NATTS, but what happened, the various organisations could not agree on a policy.

They all like to be in their own ivory towers wielding a little bit of power here and there, but are they bothered about "The Bigger Picture", I think not.

You know I am glad that I was born in 1949 because at least I had the chance and I grasped it with both hands to shoot all sorts of different firearms. What chance has anyone got in the next fifty years.



Sorry not to mention Co2

well were well off topic now lets wrap it up and start a new thread, "is there any room for foreign b**tards" that should get a good debate going

[hwtyger]

Between 10 and about 22 degrees there ís no temperature issue for sure..And thats a cheapo Tau 7..
Temperature issues are só exagerrated!! They're nót crosmans, you know!
Near zero, than you might start to see some poi shift. Bút:
- thats what yr test shots are for, few clicks, solved
- is it surely the gun? I dont shoot well around zero either..
- pcp will react at these temps as well
99% of the CO2 matchpistols use cilinders. So shotcount is NOT an issue. Just fill up before a match. Thats what you do with pcp isnt it so why not with co2??
Filling CO2 cilinders is no problem at all. You can use simple fire bottles, or restaurant CO2 bottles.
ONLY issue in some countries, is the data on the cilinders. Bút thats equally true for older pcp's.
Another issue is changing weight/balance when co2 empties.

I really dont understand; they shot worldrecords with co2, won medals etc. Than why on EARTH should wé, normal shooting humans, nééd pcp?? We dont..We might wánt pcp, but dont nééd it.. If those pistols are good enough for world record, they're surely good enough for us normal match shooters arent they?
CO2 is by FAR good enough.

[Old Fart]

I have noticed over the years there's the NEW gun syndrome. Some shooters must have the latest piece of kit to give them an "edge", and they will spend a fortune doing this.

It does not matter what you shoot, be it shotgun, rifle or pistol they have to have the newest version. It doesn't matter if they don't shoot it as well because it's new but they need to get used to it, they might even shoot it better than the old one, sometimes they will not.

Manufacturers are really good at bringing new designs out, they have to be to stay in business, but does the average shooter shoot a higher score with this new gun, sometimes and I am talking about "Target" quality guns not plinking.

I enjoy all my shooting and just because somebody is a bit old fashioned it's no big deal.

[Gregory]

I give up! Co2 is great everybody should shoot Co2 anyone that doesnt is a show off. I'm off down the pub this aft to get the barman to fill up my lungs with the stuff and I'm off to spit pellets out from now on.

Hoo f*kn ray!

[magicniner]

I give up! Co2 is great everybody should shoot Co2 anyone that doesnt is a show off. I'm off down the pub this aft to get the barman to fill up my lungs with the stuff and I'm off to spit pellets out from now on.

Hoo f*kn ray!

Oh go on,
Keep it going, it's no fun without some unfounded opinions and invalid comparisons with cars which rusted & shed their subframes
Regards,
Nick

[Old Fart]

Nah, I've had enough

I used to have a Mini which had a rotten subframe though...honestly

[Gregory]

Oh go on,
Keep it going, it's no fun without some unfounded opinions and invalid comparisons with cars which rusted & shed their subframes
Regards,
Nick

nope my minds made up, co2 is the way foward, who needs a decent pistol engineered by german / austrian experts, when I can have an ex soviet pistol made out of a lump of russian tractor iron and powered by fart gas.

Magicniner you dont really have the best arguments, though I have to admit that I dont necessarily need a decent weapon to shoot 8's if thats the sum total of your submissions then well done you win.

[The Doctor]

The original post stated the question 'Is there room for CO2 in target/competition pistol shooting?' - the basic answer, and I did say the the co2 fan boys would be along to defend their position, is 'no' - if it were the case, why were there no co2 pistols at the World Cup in Fort Benning, or were the world's elite shooters not made aware that co2 is the way to go?

If you are a club shooter knocking in 520 ish, well done, good on ya - if you want to cut it against the top shooters in the world, then you need to be on the same playing field, and this, I am afraid, you won't be doing with old technology. Of course, the shooter does come into the equation, but the equipment helps.

Lee

[Old Fart]

Lee,

This is just for me to know...what is your average....and what division do you shoot in

Are you really a world class shooter or a wanabee?

[The Doctor]

Lee,

This is just for me to know...what is your average....and what division do you shoot in

Are you really a world class shooter or a wanabee?

My current average in practice sits between 570 and 574 - competition is around 560 - 564 with my Pb being at Bisley earlier in the year with a 564. I wouldn't say a world class shooter, we don't have any in this country now - most are quite happy sitting behind a computer singing the praises of old technology, the good old days and the like.....

Just so you know, like

Lee