As requested by ggggr (Guy) Gun identification please.

[Punchsteve]

I have been asked by bbs good guy erm Guy to post these pics up for him hoping that the membership can identify the gun / variant. I'm sure he'll be grateful for any info you can give him.

Pictures here.

Many thanks.

[DCL_dave]

Going from the stock it looks a bit like a Pfiel deluxe (if so, it'll be 105cm long)...but the breech block looks different...Mr Hiller's book (p188) has a bit of info on these...


Edit: Steve, do us a favour and measure the stock-end, for depth and width, please. I'll see if I've got a buttplate that'll fit...it saves Guy sending me a template

[Punchsteve]

Going from the stock it looks a bit like a Pfiel deluxe (if so, it'll be 105cm long)...but the breech block looks different...Mr Hiller's book (p188) has a bit of info on these...


Edit: Steve, do us a favour and measure the stock-end, for depth and width, please. I'll see if I've got a buttplate that'll fit...it saves Guy sending me a template

Hello Dave, thanks for the response. The gun is in Guy's possession, so I'm sure he'll measure it when he sees this thread.

[ggggr]

Total length of gun is 100cm and barrel about 45 cm. This is what I did with it.
Punchsteve told me the gun was missing the butt plate and the trigger adjusting screw and would probably need a new piston washer and mainspring (dodgy lot these mods). Anyhow I tried to fire it and it took a couple of shots to clear the pellet. I noticed the barrel sagged a little as well so thought a new breech seal would be in order. I undid the barrel pivot lock nut, which has two flats on it for a spanner, and took the barrel off and then picked the breech seal out of the cylinder face. It came easy because it was rotted.I fitted a new breech washer. Interesting to note that there was a boss from the tranfer port to help keep the washer in shape. Basic stripdown and lube. The piston washer was a plain leather one rather than a cup washer. The mainspring was not great but decided to use it again to see if the breech seal had made a difference. The bearing surfaces of the piston appear to be pinned to the piston and the piston rod could unscrew. The trigger pin was a tapered pin (bugger to shift) and there was a cock up thing to locate the trigger spring to. guess it should be another tapered pin in from the back of the trigger housing but it was a little screw pushed in with a bit of gunge to hold it. I superglued it in for now but if it comes loose will sort something else out. The stock was worn next to where the locating dowel on the trigger housing goes so I glued in a bit of wood and again a better job may be done if needed. It shoots ok with the old spring in it. The trigger feels ok so I wont bother with an adjuster screw but will keep an eye on the piston rod turning. I noticed the point of impact shifted and the barrel lock nut was coming undone so put a washer under the nut and loctited it. The gun shoots high and right and I may have to live with that as the basic sights seem rusted solid (plus gas on the rearsight now to try to ease it). Actually quite a well made little gun. Steve offered me my money back if there were any problems with the gun but I could not really say that there was anything wrong with it, just small problems to work round. Thanks for putting up the pics Steve----AND a nice little gun

[Garvin]

I don't know what this rifle is, Guy, sorry. From the cylinder forwards it looks like a pre-WW1 Diana, with similar breech jaws, curved breech block, part-octagonal barrel, although the barrel pivot bolt looks odd.

But the trigger block is straight whereas none of the Dianas had straight trigger blocks until the export versions of the BSA clones came out in the '20s. The stock is unlike any Diana I've seen either.

The trigger guard doesn't look original to the rifle to me.

[ggggr]

I don't know what this rifle is, Guy, sorry. From the cylinder forwards it looks like a pre-WW1 Diana, with similar breech jaws, curved breech block, part-octagonal barrel, although the barrel pivot bolt looks odd.

But the trigger block is straight whereas none of the Dianas had straight trigger blocks until the export versions of the BSA clones came out in the '20s. The stock is unlike any Diana I've seen either.

The trigger guard doesn't look original to the rifle to me.

Looking in Hillers book (2nd edition) it looks a bit like a millita medium size but with a pistol grip stock. From what I can see, the trigger guard looks like that as well. All views appreciated.

[dogsbody]

Hi,
Had a look through Hillers 4th Edition, looks very like a Tell Model 2 (p.207). Not a good illustration though from a 1933 catalogue. Stock shape is right, overall length is right 100cm. 4 variants, 4.5mm,5.5mm, smooth or rifled bore. Weighed 2.6kg. Could do with a detailed photo of one to compare.
atb
dogsbody

[ggggr]

Hi,
Had a look through Hillers 4th Edition, looks very like a Tell Model 2 (p.207). Not a good illustration though from a 1933 catalogue. Stock shape is right, overall length is right 100cm. 4 variants, 4.5mm,5.5mm, smooth or rifled bore. Weighed 2.6kg. Could do with a detailed photo of one to compare.
atb
dogsbody

Sorry---I dont have a camera so no pics. I dont have Hillers 4th edition either. It is a .177 smooth bore.

[DCL_dave]

Hi,
Had a look through Hillers 4th Edition, looks very like a Tell Model 2 (p.207). Not a good illustration though from a 1933 catalogue. Stock shape is right, overall length is right 100cm. 4 variants, 4.5mm,5.5mm, smooth or rifled bore. Weighed 2.6kg. Could do with a detailed photo of one to compare.
atb
dogsbody

Sorry---I dont have a camera so no pics. I dont have Hillers 4th edition either. It is a .177 smooth bore.

Well spotted, dogsbody, the tell looks a more likely match.

Guy, I'll scan page 207 a bit later on today and pm you a link. Will have a look to see if I have a suitable buttplate for it too.

[dogsbody]

Guy, I meant a photo of another Tell Model 2 to compare with your rifle. The illustration from the catalogue in Hiller is not too good on detail. I had a search on the web but couldn't find a photo. Will have another look.
.177 smoothbore is No. D303 in the catalogue.
Not convinced it is a Tell but its got to be a candidate. Any Tell experts out there?
atb
dogsbody

[dogsbody]

Guy,
have a look here: http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/...ll-part-1.html
and http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/...ll-part-2.html
and http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/...ll-part-3.html

dogsbody

[ggggr]

Guy,
have a look here: http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/...ll-part-1.html
and http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/...ll-part-2.html
and http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/...ll-part-3.html

dogsbody

Oddly enough I found the first two articles when I did a search (and crap at finding things). I took the rifle down for my niece today but the barrel and breech is not a one piece job because I can see the braze under the barrel. The pivot bolt has no slot on it,s head and the nut has two flats for a spanner. It is surprisingly accurate at short distance (7 or 8 yards).

[Herpquest]

For some wierd reason, when I click on the link in the first post, I see pictures of a Benjamin 342 that I recently bought from Punchsteve!!
ATB
Eric

[Punchsteve]

For some wierd reason, when I click on the link in the first post, I see pictures of a Benjamin 342 that I recently bought from Punchsteve!!
ATB
Eric

They were in the same album mate. I think I must have accidentally deleted Guy's pics when I 'tidied up' the album before putting the ones of the Benjamin up.

They're still on the camera. When I find the adapter thingy, I'll put them back up.

[Punchsteve]

Pics re-uploaded for Guy here.