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Thread: Legal Quarry - Herring Gulls?

  1. 11-02-2005, 01:26 PM #1
    Sub Sea Sniper
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    Legal Quarry - Herring Gulls?

    Guys,

    I know there have been threads RE this subject before but I haven't found anything which completely clarifies the legal position.

    I have a nice coastal cliff area where I go shooting and contains a huge colony of herring gulls.

    As far as I can make out nobody owns this cliff area, the nearby farm has fields to run up to between 10 and 80 foot of the cliff edges. There are no maintained paths on the clifftops nor are there any buildings or constructions outwith the nearby fields.

    What is my legal position in relation to shooting the herring gulls. To say they are a problem in this area is an understatement. Can I shoot them without permission? Can I shoot them at all? Any help on this subject would be greatly appreciated as I am totally in the dark about what I can and can't do.

    Cheers,

    Sub Sea Sniper
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  2. 11-02-2005, 01:33 PM #2
    Landswehr Guest
    (1) You cannot shoot anything unless you have permission to do so on that piece of land. This isn't automatic - the permission defaults to 'NO' so you have to actually have a (preferably written) 'YES'

    (2) You will have to demonstrate that these gulls are a nuisance or a health hazard in line with the DEFRA licence's terms and conditions. Your say-so isn't enough. You can't simply go out and use a whole species for target practice, inviting though they might be.

    To illustrate this, I was asked to clear the roof of a large factory in Westhill a couple of years ago. The local council refused me permission because I had not demonstrated a clear need.

    Sorry.
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  3. 11-02-2005, 01:34 PM #3
    Gary C Guest
    I think they can be taken all year round.
    As Bob says - you have to have land permission but it seems to indicate you don't need to have a license



    Bird Pest Species
    The following thirteen bird pest species may be killed or taken by authorised persons at any time under annual open and general licences issued by the Department of the Environment. No individual has to apply for a licence:

    Crow
    Jackdaw
    Magpie
    Rook

    House Sparrow
    Starling
    Woodpigeon
    Feral Pigeon

    Collard Dove*
    Herring Gull
    Jay*

    Lsr Black-backed Gull
    Gt. Black-backed Gull
    Last edited by Gary C; 11-02-2005 at 01:36 PM.
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  4. 11-02-2005, 01:35 PM #4
    EddieP
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    Somebody DOES own it, of that you can be quite sure!
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  5. 11-02-2005, 01:37 PM #5
    Geordie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sub Sea Sniper
    As far as I can make out nobody owns this cliff area, the nearby farm has fields to run up to between 10 and 80 foot of the cliff edges. There are no maintained paths on the clifftops nor are there any buildings or constructions outwith the nearby fields.
    All land is "owned" by someone, and unless you have their express permission to be shooting anything there, then you're an armed trespasser in the eyes of the law!

    Get caught shooting there and you'd be in for a lot of bother mate...
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  6. 11-02-2005, 01:49 PM #6
    EddieP
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    As Landswehr has pointed out, the DEFRA licences don't just allow you to shoot them because you want to. There needs to be good reason, as otherwise the likes of the RSPB can, and do, prosecute.

    You say that they are a significant problem in 'the area'. Fair enough, but whilst that might justify shooting them in 'the area' where they are causing problems, I'll bet you the RSPB and their ilk would take a very dim view of using that as a reason to take control measures to the (presumably) breeding colony?

    PS; Having looked at your profile, I can't believe I'm offering YOU advice on this!
    Last edited by EddieP; 11-02-2005 at 01:51 PM.
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  7. 11-02-2005, 01:56 PM #7
    Landswehr Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by EddieP
    PS; Having looked at your profile, I can't believe I'm offering YOU advice on this!
    It's nice he's asking though Ed, isn't it?

    Remember PC prat last year who knew everything and kept giving the wrong advice on here??? He didn't last long, especially when he turned out be a Nazi!!

    Nope, this guy gets my vote over some of his contemporaries.

    Bob
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  8. 11-02-2005, 02:03 PM #8
    EddieP
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    Absolutely Bob, couldn't agree more
    Every credit to him for asking before shooting

    I'm just surprised that basic police training didn't cover this, or at the very least the fact that all land belongs to someone, and that the best way to find out to whom is to committ an offence on it. Armed treapass would do very nicely.
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  9. 11-02-2005, 02:43 PM #9
    Sub Sea Sniper
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    Guys,

    thanks for the advice. I am glad I asked before going out there to sort out some gulls.

    I wouldn't be stupid enough to pretend to know everything about the law, after all my job is only concerned with one aspect of a huge subject. Please don't turn this thread into a slagging session because a bobby doesn't know something about the law.

    Ignorance is no defence if you infringe any law and I would rather ask first and shoot later, not the other way around. I am not making these posts to try and prove a point or act like a prat, I am new to airgunning and want to know more about this great hobby without drawing negative attention or publicity. That is why I am posting on this site as there is a lot of knowledgeable people who can offer sound advice.

    Thanks again for the pointers,

    Sub Sea Sniper
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  10. 11-02-2005, 02:50 PM #10
    Landswehr Guest
    Damn! What a refreshing post! So that's DJP, Dazzpol and Now Sub Sea Sniper ....

    It's entirely possible that we might just have the UK's full complement of switched-on approachable cops right here - on our lil' ol' BBS.

    Cool. huh????

    PS: Just a thought here. You don't suppose he has a spelling problem like 70% of the newbies ....... and actually meant 'girls' do you????
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  11. 11-02-2005, 03:16 PM #11
    steven
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landswehr
    Damn! What a refreshing post! So that's DJP, Dazzpol and Now Sub Sea Sniper ....
    A couple more and we could have a new team for the HFT series!
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  12. 11-02-2005, 03:20 PM #12
    EddieP
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    SubSeaSniper - your post shows that you are anything but a prat, and your presence does indeed boost our complement of sensibly orientated policemen, so welcome to the BBS, and safe shooting
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  13. 11-02-2005, 04:18 PM #13
    alanl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary C
    Bird Pest Species
    The following thirteen bird pest species may be killed or taken by authorised persons at any time.....
    House Sparrow
    Starling

    Where did you get this list from?
    It is now out of date, as from 1st Jan 2005 it is illegal to kill any Sparrows, and I'm pretty sure that Starlings cannot be culled either.
    Alan.
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  14. 11-02-2005, 04:39 PM #14
    morose
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    Quote Originally Posted by alanl
    Where did you get this list from?
    It is now out of date, as from 1st Jan 2005 it is illegal to kill any Sparrows, and I'm pretty sure that Starlings cannot be culled either.
    Alan.
    Almost correct it's actually from the 1st of March 2005

    DEFRA News Release

    Charlie
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  15. 11-02-2005, 04:44 PM #15
    Landswehr Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by morose
    Almost correct it's actually from the 1st of March 2005

    DEFRA News Release

    Charlie
    which, at 1745hrs Paris time, says "Service unavailable!"
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