shipping a gun from Germany to the UK

[bigtoe01]

Just had a mate in Germany pick up a FWB 300s for me, once it arrives with him what are my best options to ship it back to the UK?

Im thinking TNT...anyone here used someone else and had a good experience?

TIA

Tony

[RobinC]

problem, problem, most mail system in Germany now will not touch any gun even air, DHL is definately out, the one I've had recomended is www.dpd.de but my German friends say even they are touchy. Best to get him to bring it back with him, there are no legal or customs issues they are not interested at all, it is purely a policy decision by most of the carriers.
Best of Luck
Robin

[bigtoe01]

Get him to bring it back with him....he lives there so he won't be coming to the UK soon

TNT carry guns in the UK, most RFD's use them. the weapon is F stamped for 7.5Joules and is un modified...I think we will just have to research who will carry, first choice being TNT.

[air-tech]

Get him to bring it back with him....he lives there so he won't be coming to the UK soon

TNT carry guns in the UK, most RFD's use them. the weapon is F stamped for 7.5Joules and is un modified...I think we will just have to research who will carry, first choice being TNT.

You will find that TNT will only carry for account holding RFDs in the UK (domestic) by special arrangement.

AFAIK, all the regular large courier co's (DHL, TNT, etc) won't touch firearms/airguns at all for international shipment, and it has been this way for many moons now. Nor parts... so F or no F you/we are still F'ed

It IS possible to have an airgun posted from Germany - just not via Deutsche Post/DHL. I still don't know who does it and TBH probably won't bother in the near future, as locally (Malta) DHL also handle incoming parcel post from Germany and are not forwarding any guns received, so sorting out one end of the problem is only a bridge that goes half way across the river.

So we airfreight them instead. Not cheap but not OTT either, but this is something that needs organising, and well, and is certainly far from viable for a small number of guns (<40 between pistols and rifles)

If you find a carrier who will get it out of Germany not via DHL, then you are good to go. Let us know.

A good place to start would be asking Egun vendors who advertise international shipping, who they would be using if you won the auction, because you heard that there are problems...

[bigtoe01]

I will have it shipped to an RFD if needed..thats not an issue. I just had a mail back from TNT actually stating they will collect for me so im feeling positive but will continue to be cautious.

[JG66]

I have received all my air guns from Holland and Germany for the last 2 years without a hitch....ever.

Probably because in 99.99% of all cases, I use Bisley NSRA gunshop as mailing destination....which means once on UK side, it's just a standard delivery to a RFD.

DPD.de has been used by German sellers when sending me air guns...issues ? None whatsoever...and in the past, eGun sellers were indeed using DHL to send me stuff. I think by default, and I wouldn't be surprised, that all German sellers selling internationally will use www.dpd.de , now that DHL is not sending air guns from Germany.

[air-tech]

Confusion reigns.

I read this on dpd.de's site:

"Some goods cannot be delivered with DPD. These include live animals, firearms ..."

[JG66]

Confusion reigns.

I read this on dpd.de's site:

"Some goods cannot be delivered with DPD. These include live animals, firearms ..."

From what I gather, a 7.5 Joule airgun in Germany, under German law, with "F" marking is not considered a firearm.

Whereas under UK LAW, an airgun, irrespective of power (ie: under FAC power)...is considered a 'Firearm"...

So assuming German law is correctly interpreted, It means powder burners arent allowed....


See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun_laws#Germany

In Germany, air guns producing a muzzle energy up to 7.5 joule (J) (5.53 ft·lbf) can be owned by persons from the age of 18 years and freely acquired provided they bear the "F-in-pentagon" mark" that indicates a muzzle energy not exceeding 7.5 J (5.5 ft·lbf) kinetic energy. Carrying air guns in public necessitates a carry permit (§ 10 Abs. 4 WaffG), extremely rare as such and never granted for air guns. Only the transportation of unloaded and non-accessible air guns (or carrying unloaded during biathlon) is considered a "permissible carry" (§ 12 Abs. 3 Nr. 2, Nr. 3 WaffG).
Shooting is only permitted on licensed ranges (§ 27 Abs. 1, § 12 Abs. 4 2 Nr. 1 WaffG), on enclosed private property if it is assured that the projectiles can not possibly leave the shooting area (§ 12 Abs. 4 Nr. 1a WaffG) The minimum age for air gun shooting in Germany is 12 years, under supervision (§ 27 Abs. 3 S. 1 Nr. 1 WaffG), but exceptions may be granted to younger children upon request, supported by suitable references from a doctor and by a licensed shooting federation (§ 27 Abs. 4 WaffG).
Air weapons exceeding 7.5 J muzzle energy, e.g. field target guns, are treated like firearms and require a relevant permit for acquuisition and possession. Proof of need, a clean criminal record and the passing of a knowledge and handling test are required (§ 4 Abs. 1 WaffG).
A purchase authorization is not required for air guns that were manufactured and introduced onto the market before 1 January 1970 in Germany or before 2 April 1991 on the territory of the former East Germany (WaffG, Appendix 2, Section 1, Subsection 2, 1.2); they can, regardless of their muzzle energy and/or the presence of an "F-in-pentagon" mark, be freely acquired and possessed.
The storage requirements for firearms do not apply to air guns (cf. § 36 Abs. 1 S. 1 WaffG); they must only be stored safely from minors.


....therefore in my book, as per my German resellers & practise of sending air guns abroad - whether by individuals or SHOPS, are indeed comfortable using the DPD courier service in mailing airguns to the UK

[bigtoe01]

PDP came back to me stating no guns...TNT are business to business so it is possible to use them BUT awkward as I will probably need to ship to RFD and probably have to pick up from a business address (and use an account holder to ship)

All is not lost though, it looks like we found a carrier that does ship as long as F marked..this is why most all guns sold on egun usually have a description stating whether F mark is in place or not.

I will have my German contact re contact PDP asking about the F mark status with them, i think they feel we are shipping a full on firearm where quite rightly as stated in Germany F marked guns are not regarded as firearms under law.

Thankfully I picked up this 300s for a very nice price so I have a contingency set aside for shipping, i just hope this falls within the extra i allowed so it was worth shopping in Germany.

[JG66]

PDP came back to me stating no guns...TNT are business to business so it is possible to use them BUT awkward as I will probably need to ship to RFD and probably have to pick up from a business address (and use an account holder to ship)

All is not lost though, it looks like we found a carrier that does ship as long as F marked..this is why most all guns sold on egun usually have a description stating whether F mark is in place or not.

I will have my German contact re contact PDP asking about the F mark status with them, i think they feel we are shipping a full on firearm where quite rightly as stated in Germany F marked guns are not regarded as firearms under law.

Thankfully I picked up this 300s for a very nice price so I have a contingency set aside for shipping, i just hope this falls within the extra i allowed so it was worth shopping in Germany.

Would that be DPD in the UK or DPD in Germany ?

There is a DPD UK ...

99.99% of all airguns on eGun...are..."F" ...no surprise there.

As mentioned, some sellers from eGun, are bona fide retail or online shops (in addition to individual sellers) & may have an account with DPD already (since DHL closed the door), so again, Its no surprise German shops AND individuals use DPD Germany to send to the UK. Am stating from experience, that I have never had an issue receiving airguns from Germany - whether from an online shop, retailer, or individual on eGun.

What I do notice, is that when the airgun is sent by DPD Germany, on the UK side, It is delived by UK TNT.

Furthermore, I tell the retailer, eGun seller, to always put the UK RFD delivery address I use the most - ie: NSRA Bisley Gun shop.

100% no fail rate.

Hope all this info. clarifies, and you get your Fwb 300

NB: Have your German seller, simply contact a couple of big well known German shops, to ask them what courier service those shops use...It will be no surprise that they hear back, that DPD is the default courier..

http://www.schiesssport-buinger.de/

http://www.sport-jagdwaffen.de

...and by the way...none of these shops say in their shipment policy: "We DO NOT MAIL to UK" ...so Its pretty obvious Its a bit of a red herring...

[MattyBoy]

Whereas under UK LAW, an airgun, irrespective of power (ie: under FAC power)...is considered a 'Firearm"...

I thought the opposite - sub 12 ft lb air rifles are absolutely NOT considered as a "firearm" under UK law.

Otherwise I have 48 firearms in my possession and I don't possess a FAC

[Garvin]

I thought the opposite - sub 12 ft lb air rifles are absolutely NOT considered as a "firearm" under UK law.

Otherwise I have 48 firearms in my possession and I don't possess a FAC

Actually you do have 48 firearms in your possession! But under UK law sub-12 ft/lbs air rifles are exempt from the need for a licence. However, they are considered to be firearms in the relevant legislation.

[air-tech]

That's interesting JG66.

In fact yesterday I wrote to DPD asking specifically about carriage of "F" marked guns.

Let's see what comes through.