Bell Target Shooting.

[zooma]

The "first draft" of our new proposed rules are now on the Rossendale Model Target Club site, and we would welcome any helpful comments from any of the more experienced Bell Target shooters.

Our proposed rules take into account the lack of any existing Bell Target Leagues in this immeadiate area, and accept that the introduction of this well established sport will take some time and will (initially at least) probably only attract low numbers.

The use of "Classic" match air rifles ( springers and SSP only) along with "Classic" sporting rifles with open or dioptre sights should help keep the costs down and encourage a few to "have a go".

We have "tweaked" the rules a little and made the teams smaller to get things started, but we will always keep an open mind about things and are prepared to "fall into line" if our ideas are not liked or fail to attract newcomers to Bell Target Shooting in our Club or in our local area.

[thimblehouse]

Sorry cant find your club site on Google, perhaps you could email the URL.

My lot will be out and about at game fairs and other events promoting this sport and inviting poeple to have a go
on our mobile indoor range.

Our first outing will be at the start of march at the Shugbourough Game fair followed by easter at Selby Game Fair and Kelmarsh two weeks later.
Dave Mills with the ATEO may be putting on some Bell Shooting at the British Shooting show and one of our members Dave Walker will be there to answer questions.

[zooma]

Sorry cant find your club site on Google, perhaps you could email the URL.

My lot will be out and about at game fairs and other events promoting this sport and inviting poeple to have a go
on our mobile indoor range.

Our first outing will be at the start of march at the Shugbourough Game fair followed by easter at Selby Game Fair and Kelmarsh two weeks later.
Dave Mills with the ATEO may be putting on some Bell Shooting at the British Shooting show and one of our members Dave Walker will be there to answer questions.

If you type Rossendale Model Target Club into Google it will find it for you ( I just tested it works OK).

[TheBaron]

It doesn't

[thimblehouse]

It doesn't

I agree the only results are to back here and to bobsairguns which has no recent info.

[zooma]

I agree the only results are to back here and to bobsairguns which has no recent info.

You have found it. bobsairguns.com is hosting the Rossendale Model Target Club site for now.

When you get to bobsairguns look at the top right of the page to click onto Rossendale Model Target Club to see the drop down menue and select Bell Target and the rules will be there for you to read.

Others have already emailed me with their good comments and spotted a couple of spelin mistooks (now corrected), so it does work OK - but maybe you did not recognise the club info on the top right of the page.

I hope to come and meet you at one of your open events this year and see how you more experienced guys run things.

[zooma]

It doesn't

Just checked it again using Google search and it took me straight to it.

Quite a few have found it already, so I am not sure why the search engine is not working for you - but try www.bobsairguns.com as that is the temporary home for the Rossendale Model Target Club site.

We will move it to is own site when we have the time, but we are happy there for now.

Hope this helps.

[TheBaron]

Just checked it again using Google search and it took me straight to it.

Quite a few have found it already, so I am not sure why the search engine is not working for you - but try www.bobsairguns.com as that is the temporary home for the Rossendale Model Target Club site.

We will move it to is own site when we have the time, but we are happy there for now.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, that does help, you can probably see why I and others were confused. May have been easier to post link initially to save time in explaining it later. Looks really interesting, I am fairly new to hft and won't be taking up another discipline any time soon but like the communal feel of this and the history of being part of the pub and social club scene. Noticed one of the older posts said you may be starting in a church hall. Good luck to you and good on you for taking the initiative.

[zooma]

Thanks, that does help, you can probably see why I and others were confused. May have been easier to post link initially to save time in explaining it later. Looks really interesting, I am fairly new to hft and won't be taking up another discipline any time soon but like the communal feel of this and the history of being part of the pub and social club scene. Noticed one of the older posts said you may be starting in a church hall. Good luck to you and good on you for taking the initiative.

Thanks Baron,

We are brand new to Bell Target Shooting and trying to get it started in an area with no Bell Target Activity to refer to.

This thread has been a great help to me, and although it seems like most exisiting leagues all have their own individual quirks with slightly differing rules, it has also led me to concentrate not on any of these differences - but on the huge similarities!

I like the "character" of these slight variants and think it can be likened to a regional accent - and also think it is very desirable to keep them all alive!

No member of any league would feel totally "at sea" if visiting another league for a match, and might even enjoy the small changes encountered between the (slightly) different rules.

I think there are enough hard core similarities for any teams and competitors from any of the leagues to be able to shoot against each other at an open meeting using just about any variant of the slightly differing rules.

Our new league will also add a few small quirks of our own - mainly to suite what we already have, what we would like to see, and to only allow the use of .177 rifles that by definition are not likely to cost any more than £300, and can all be found for considerably less.

Perhaps at a later date we may have enough competitors to warrant the inclusion of the more expensive current match rifles, but right now the Classic types with their lower price tags is where we want to be, and will give us the best chance of gaining some support.

Likewise - we would love to have a lot of the wonderful original and very desirable Bell Targets - but we don't have any - and they fetch (very) good prices at auctions - so we are using the excellent "value for money" Red Rob Bell Targets as we know there are several Mk 7 and Mk 8 targets in this area, and they can be bought new and delivered to the doorstep for less than ninety quid, so we will use these and include the extra scoring ring that they all have in our rules.

I will also continue to "listen and learn"and make any adjustments to our own verison of the rules when it makes sense to do so - but not just to "comply" as that seems to run against the flow of the individual rules that may have also been "questioned" when they were written, but are now enjoyed by those that shoot to them each week.

[thimblehouse]

Thanks for more detail and had a look through your rules.
Heres a few comments from me.

1. Targets to restrictive the Red Rob target is not the definative target. I would widen this to include all makes in home made
Listing rules on the make up of the face plate, sizes etc. Then rules on how to score, even considering a guage to see if it a bull or not.
We dont use a guage in single target mathes if the bell rings its a 5. No 5.1 for clean.
As both team shoot on the same target then there is no difference for each side and gives an equal result.

2 Rifles would be best to limit to 7 foot Lbs as most match rifles are just over 6. You may stuggle with some rifles to meet 6.
Banning PCP rifles well you know my views at such a short distance I dont think its an adavantage but agree with the Classic concept.
Sights would suggest the banning of optical magnifying aids such as fitted lenses (eagle eye) which can be fitted to diopters.
Testing I know of one league that has testing night before the leagues starts and a sticker is applied to the rifle to pass it for use in the league
then had random tests there after.
Careful with listing rifles as may become unwritten law and exclude some rifles ie the FWB300 or SU model. Then theres the FWB600/1/2 (SSP)

3. The single pellet as far as I know again is only used by one league but I agree with it. A heavy pellet can increase the Ft lbs by up to 2 lbs

4. Paint dont think you need to specify the make up of the paint as long as it works.
Scoring there should be one from each side (marker and checker Home team to check and paint) they agree on the score and someone else records it
ie secretary. In the event of a dispute team captains to try and agree if not one from each side untill all have tried. If no agreement the target should be sealed
for the league comitee to decide. But for a dead split shot the benifit the shooter and the hight counts.
The Pin mark rule is quite right but you would then need the specfiy the size of the grove even Rob targets vary.
5.1 and 5.2 No one uses that. A clean bull no mark is 5.1 and a split is 5 based on your version you cant shoot a 5 unless the target is defective.
National Standard bell targets dont have a score of 1. Although I do understand some of Robs target have an extra ring to the national standard.

5. I assume theres no pre match practice. We have a 30 to 15 min pre match (match start 8.30pm)to allow this, max shots of 3 but then only allow one sighter.
Any shot discharges with the rifle in the shoulder should count no matter were it goes.
I would suggest 6 scoring shots based on Classic rules and the at shot 5 the home team secretary?score sheet filler calls "last shot to come"
its actually quite easy to lose count when concentrating.

6 Competition by tradition the home team shoots first and only toss for it on a nuetral venue.

Like the individual comp could be extrended as a team event shoot man for man 1 for a win and half for a draw.
Add the indiviadual result up for a team score. We do this on a 4 person team does mean first team to 5 wins.

Would brush the plate after each shot as shot on top of each other can cause discussion.

Teams: May be better to have no restriction on team size with upto 4 reserves per match.
That would be 2 per side if one team is samll any available slots could be filled by the bigger team.
This would encourage growth and as they grow perhaps they could have two team later, as we
do in small person competitions. Reserve shooter declared at the start of the match so not late
swopping if they shoot well.

Multi Club rule esential would word it per season instead of 12 months for flexability.

Marker and checker the home team check as they have the brush and it cant be brushed till checked and agreed.

Going through this has promted me to amend the match rules on Belltarget.com a little to help others..

http://www.belltarget.com/competition-rules.php

I hope the above helps and gives food for thought, I cant spell either and I am often corrected. Later you can have competitions handicaped by averages.
Some points I know were clarified later in you rules but I commented as they were listed.

[zooma]

Hi David,

Thanks for the detailed response after reading the proposed rules.

I will look at all of the points you have made and consider them all.

[zooma]

Hi David,

1.I agree with your first point - it makes no difference what target is used as it is the same for everyone, and they vary only slightly from each other in any case.

We specify the Red Rob target as it is all that we have, and the home produced targets (that I know about) that are being made locally will copy the Red Rob target face scoring rings, so they will be the same in any case.

To be honest, the price of the Red Rob targets is so good, some of the people that were starting to make them have decided just to buy one instead - but there will always be somebody that just enjoys manufacturing one, and we would welcome and include them

If anyone locally should discover and use an original Bell Target that does not have the extra scoring ring, we sould be delighted to use that as well.

Our rules are mainly a guide, but common sense and fair play will always have a strong case to make as far as the Bell Target is concerned.

2. Most of the match rilfes we have tested so far are around the 6 foot pound mark ( several are well inside), and we have a tolerence of 8 foot pounds in any case, so I think this rules is OK as it stands.

We only allow open sights or dioptre sights - no optical aids are to be added or used.

If we do ever feel the need to produce a list of permitted rifles, we would be careful to include all variants that were permissable, but I think this may not be necessary at this stage as the types that can be used are farily obvious within the rules in any case, and we would prefer not to have such a list.

Classic rifles at this stage - yes. I hope this rule will encourage people to have a go as none of them should exceed £300, and almost all can be found for a lot less. As an example, we have recently bought good working 300S rifles for £200 and less and they are ideal.

3.Pleased you like the idea of a "control pellet" - it makes sense.

[zooma]

4.Paint. Again this is all we have found that works so far ( and it is good), but we would be happy to shoot on any good clean white surface that is as good as this - no problem.

In our league all disputes will be resolved at the time to keep things moving - almost better to have a wrong decision than no decision - but the scorers word ( having duly considered all the options) is final.

The size of scoring ring groove does not matter - if the pin mark touches it then it will score down - we want to keep things simple!

The central scoring ring includes the 3/8 bored hole. A shot inside this ring, but not ringing the bell will score 5 - hence 5.1 for a split shot and 5.2 for a clean shot. This is a quirk of our system that has gained good comments and support, so we will stick with it for now and see how it pans out at the end of the year. I am told many matches are won and lost on the .1, so this just keeps it interesting!

We are using the 1 scoring ring - just because we can. If we ever encounter a target without it, then we won't score the single point - but as you say, it is the same for everyone and so it makes no difference at all - even in league averages as long as all teams encounter this "odd" (to us) target the same number of times in the season - and we would ensure this happend.

[zooma]

5. We have no problems with a pre-match warm-up (practice) but by also allowing the first two shots to be called as "sighters" we make sure everyone (including those that are shy or arrive late) all get the same opportunity.

6. Home team shooting first is good - I will change our rules to include this, and keep the coin toss for individual and open meetings etc.

We could change to shoot six shots if that is what everybody else does, but with smaller team sizes ( by necessity) it may be better for us to have two rounds of 5 shots for each shooter ( score 10 shots in total) to make a better event for us.

We can also ask the scorer to call "last shot" - but the responsibility to count up to five (or six) reamains with the shooter.

Brushing the plate after every shot is also good, and agree this cannot be done until after any dispute is resolved.

Glad we prompted you to ammend your rules on Belltarget .com - we can all learn from each other from the most experienced (yourself) to the absolute novice with no real Bell Target experience ( myself).

Thanks a lot for your help and advice - much appreciated.

[zooma]

This sad old summer we are curently enjoying (!) reminds me that winter is not that many weeks away and so thoughts turn to getting the baby oil out again and preparing the bell target for some action !

The truth is the bell target has not stopped being used at all this "summer" and it has even seen some action with the air pistols at 6 yards that has been a very good way to parctice and sharpen up the skills.

Maybe we should include a bell target pistol competition at our club - and maybe even at 10 metres........now that would be a challenge.