Keywords: FAC FRD air-rifle self-certify/uncertify

[jonmalone]

I put a slot on my FAC renewal for a .22 air-rifle.

If I up the power on my air-rifle myself can I add it to my own FAC?
Or do I have to get a RFD to mod my cert?

If the air-rifle is on the cert does it HAVE to be > 12ft/lbs. What I am getting as is if I down the power myself do I have to take it off the FAC or can it live there even although the rifle is <12 ft/lbs.

I have chronos etc that would show the rifle to be reasonably below or reasonably above the limit.

jon

[Rapidnick]

All you have to do is report to the Police that issued your FAC the details of the rifle you want to put on ticket. I believe that modifying your rifle yourself is perfectly OK. In my understanding, it is the reporting that is important.
In my opinion there is little point in using up a slot on your FAC for a rifle running at just over 12fp. Why bother? Make it worth while or don't bother!
You can take rifles 'off ticket' at any time but remember that the Police are not OBLIGED to give you the slot back although I have never known them refuse.

[jonmalone]

Excuse me, I dont understand.
I have an air-rifle. I put it above 12 register it decide to put it under and then if I sell it it has to be sold as a FAC? If it was on a FAC and then I drop it below for my sons to use without me being present then I can't?

I dont think I understand what you are implying, I am not disputing just trying to understand the implication of filling the slot!

If I leave it on ticket (but at low-power) then by kids can't use it (execept under the rules of Fire Arms)?

I am confused.

[baz]

Once you air rifle is "on ticket" as a registered firearm then it will remain so whatever power you have it running at, the serial number is registered

You cannot get it "unregistered" at least not in the counties I know of

You can put it on your own FAC

You could get in serious trouble if you leave your lads to use it, better off to buy a proper FAC air rifle and let your lads have the present one

Baz

[Darren Petts]

A bloke I know in West Yorks has had one taken off ticket. Most areas do not allow this however. The mods to bring below 12ft/lb had to be done by a recognised gunsmith and a certificate issued showing it complies with sub 12ft/lb regs before plod would take it off.

[jonmalone]

The cost of "another for the kids" is pretty extreme.

Thanks for the input - I guess I may need to review what I do in light of information received.

My kids are too young to use even an air-rifle without supervision, so my wife or I always personally supervise my kids when they have an air-rifle out. It is both common-sense and the law.

If I go FAC I guess it just means that only I can do the supervision.

Perhaps that is a deeper question.

Why FAC on an air-rifle?
a) interested on the trajectory of the bigger slugs.
b) trying to understand recoil. I can shoot much better with my AR than I can with .22 RF target. I suspect it may be something to do with "iron" sights and with my handling of recoil (muzzle jump) during the rist few ms of missle travel.

With a FAC airrifle I can experiment more and cheaper with this aspect of control than with RF.

Any comments?

[shootist]

I have had a few FAC air rifles, for the following reasons.

1) Falcon precharged. Still got. Fills a gap between non FAC & rimfire. By running at about 25 ft/lb it approximates the trajectory of a .177 sub 12, which I kind of like. Currently being used with a night sight.

2) The first (registered) FAC air rifle I had was a HW80 in .22. Upped it myself (not the hardest job in the world), wrote it on the ticket and informed my firearms admin section. Reasons? Mainly, I was a serving police officer at the time, and I am also a compulsive fiddler with anything gadgety. The thought of losing my job and my pension for the sake of an inadvertant couple of extra ft/lbs made it worth the cost and effort.

As a second reason, I found that it shot better with a Venom FAC spring. It was more accurate, and it did SEEM to carry further. Faster lock time perhaps? It was worth it in my opinion.

[Rapidnick]

I am sorry if the info I gave earlier is wrong. Whilst I defer to the wisdom of others and agree that there are 'issues', is it really true that ALL FAC air rifles have to remain 'on ticket' for ever? I certainly have had one taken down and my Police force accepted it without any problems. However I was told later that my rifle might be illegal and so I put it back 'on ticket' to be certain. Doesn't it depend upon barrel length and type of rifle?

[foxshooter]

I am sorry if the info I gave earlier is wrong. Whilst I defer to the wisdom of others and agree that there are 'issues', is it really true that ALL FAC air rifles have to remain 'on ticket' for ever? I certainly have had one taken down and my Police force accepted it without any problems. However I was told later that my rifle might be illegal and so I put it back 'on ticket' to be certain. Doesn't it depend upon barrel length and type of rifle?

Have just been through this recently with regard to my Rapid 7

Once entered on your FAC it will always be a FAC rated air rifle regardless of power.

In the past it was possible to detune a FAC air rifle and hence remove it from your ticket to free up a slot. THIS IS NO LONGER ALLOWED.

It does not matter how long or short the barrel or what type/make of air rifle it is.

Mark

[Chris St. MH]

It does not matter how long or short the barrel or what type/make of air rifle it is.

Mark

Actually, it does - but not in a way that will help very much:

From the Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988

(2) Any weapon which—
(a) has at any time since the coming into force of section 2 above been a weapon to which section 1 of the principal Act applies; or
(b) would at any previous time have been such a weapon if those sections had then been in force,
shall, if it has, or at any time has had, a rifled barrel less than 24 inches in length, be treated as a weapon to which section 1 of the principal Act applies notwithstanding anything done for the purpose of converting it into a shot gun or an air weapon.

(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) above there shall be disregarded the shortening of a barrel by a registered firearms dealer for the sole purpose of replacing part of it so as to produce a barrel not less than 24 inches in length.

The Act was worded this way to allow the (then legal to sell) Saxby & Palmer rifles which had very long barrels for air rifles and some of which were downconverted from No4 .303 rifles to remain off ticket. As all air cart weapons are now on FAC, you can't de FAC an S&P anymore regardless of power level and the number of non air cartridge system FAC air rifles with >24" barrels must be quite small. The funny thing is that this law also still allows S.1 firearms to be downconverted to shotguns although the consensus of opinion in the trade is that such conversions retain their original classification. The key word here is 'notwithstanding'.

Someone earlier on pointed out that some forces do allow air rifles to be taken off ticket. They can't legally allow this anymore than they could allow you to test an H-bomb in your back garden.

[stevew71]

Have just been through this recently with regard to my Rapid 7

Once entered on your FAC it will always be a FAC rated air rifle regardless of power.

In the past it was possible to detune a FAC air rifle and hence remove it from your ticket to free up a slot. THIS IS NO LONGER ALLOWED.

It does not matter how long or short the barrel or what type/make of air rifle it is.

Mark

It's not that it's not allowed but (as ever) the wording of the law. Essentially a weapon can only come off ticket if it cannot be made a servicable sec1 (or 2/5) weapon again. In firearms terms this simply means deacting. as we all know can be upped and downed in power relatively easily so it's impossible to say that a Rapid (for example) would never be capable of FAC velocities again. That said there are a couple of constabularies that will take 'proof' from certain RFDs and accept it.

[RichardH]

Northants will still let you detune and decertify

Richard