Pump up pneumatics - why are they so great?

[MattyBoy]

I have gained one especially important piece of anecdotal support for future arguments with my other half, when a rifle shaped parcel arrives..

12 Innovas!? 12!!!!?

Indeed I have 12 most of which i have purchased as non-working examples and have rebuilt.

Number 12 is still undergoing the rebuild process (sorry for the delay Lectros )

I still find them as rewarding to shoot as a springer whereas PCPs are just soooo boring

[oneseven]

Ha! So you could spend some time pumping them up before laying them out strategically, clint eastwood style, thus negating the need for a 12 shot rapid!

[MattyBoy]

Ha! So you could spend some time pumping them up before laying them out strategically, clint eastwood style, thus negating the need for a 12 shot rapid!

I might just do that...

[gedfinn 2]

was not a particularly beautiful rifle and the trigger gets harder to pull the more you pump it.However,in 1978,this Sharp cost $NZ70 and churned a pellet out at a 1000fps without recoil. I think you folk in the UK might have only had "tame" Innovas?
Footnote.
I've watched a number of well-endowed chaps who cock the likes of HW80s easily,struggling with pumpers .A "pumping knack" is definitely required but once mastered,makes the task fun.:-)

All of the threads evaded the real reason for their popularity !

Nothing at the time ( 1979-80 ) Could live with the power of the " Pump ups " Espescially the Sharps ???
Trevs mention of 1000 fps is true ( In .177 )

Its also true that a knack for pumping had to be developed,
But to cut to the quick, POWER was the Sharps & All of the pumpers selling point ?

Its been mentioned that the Innova trigger is not so good ( It is at 11 Fpe )
Its mentioned that the pumping required was excessive !!
Do I need to point out how many pumps a 1377 needs to just be able for a pellet to exit the barrel ? ( Thats a pistol, Designed in a country with no power output , & Brought here to the UK with a 6 Fpe limit , How does that work > ) Emasculated spring to mind ? )

Again, Lets look at its profile : Here we have a gun, Capable of 20 Fpe, Its design was for this output , Had its design been for 12 Fpe ( With the blowoff valve system ) 4 Pumps ( Or less, My Compression/Exhaust valve ) Can make 11.3 Fpe on 3, Pumps, I might add, That this is constricted by the Pump/Cylinder diameter , If this were larger 12 Fpe could be acheived on 2, " Pumps "

They are also recoiless ( Well nearly )
In my humble opinion, If a pumper ( Multi-2, Pump ) was made it would sell well, It would have the constraints of 12 Fpe, This could however be in its favour,
Just the size & The weight of an SSP was its down fall, 2 pumps & Its half the size / Weight,

Also a trigger designed for 12 Fpe & Not the 20 Fpe of the innova ( Which, I have to say , Handled it very well )

Just a thought, Ged.

[MattyBoy]

Hi Ged


Go easy with that expensive Scotch!


Have you ever done a "trigger tune" on an Innova?

I have a mind to do that tonight...


Any thoughts before the 40% kicks in?

[oneseven]

All of the threads evaded the real reason for their popularity !

Nothing at the time ( 1979-80 ) Could live with the power of the " Pump ups " Espescially the Sharps ???
Trevs mention of 1000 fps is true ( In .177 )

Its also true that a knack for pumping had to be developed,
But to cut to the quick, POWER was the Sharps & All of the pumpers selling point ?

Its been mentioned that the Innova trigger is not so good ( It is at 11 Fpe )
Its mentioned that the pumping required was excessive !!
Do I need to point out how many pumps a 1377 needs to just be able for a pellet to exit the barrel ? ( Thats a pistol, Designed in a country with no power output , & Brought here to the UK with a 6 Fpe limit , How does that work > ) Emasculated spring to mind ? )

Again, Lets look at its profile : Here we have a gun, Capable of 20 Fpe, Its design was for this output , Had its design been for 12 Fpe ( With the blowoff valve system ) 4 Pumps ( Or less, My Compression/Exhaust valve ) Can make 11.3 Fpe on 3, Pumps, I might add, That this is constricted by the Pump/Cylinder diameter , If this were larger 12 Fpe could be acheived on 2, " Pumps "

They are also recoiless ( Well nearly )
In my humble opinion, If a pumper ( Multi-2, Pump ) was made it would sell well, It would have the constraints of 12 Fpe, This could however be in its favour,
Just the size & The weight of an SSP was its down fall, 2 pumps & Its half the size / Weight,

Also a trigger designed for 12 Fpe & Not the 20 Fpe of the innova ( Which, I have to say , Handled it very well )

Just a thought, Ged.

Hi Ged,

I've no doubt you are right that UK pump ups are emasculated. If there was a rifle that would do 12ft/lbs on two pumps then I think you're correct, it would sell well, being lightweight, recoiless and independant from bottles etc, but there isn't one and we are left with rifles that take a silly amount of energy to achieve what a spring rifle does just by breaking the barrel.

As for FAC versions, how many pumps for 20ft/lbs, its the same problem no?

Regards,

Oneseven

[MattyBoy]

Hi Ged,

I've no doubt you are right that UK pump ups are emasculated. If there was a rifle that would do 12ft/lbs on two pumps then I think you're correct, it would sell well, being lightweight, recoiless and independant from bottles etc, but there isn't one and we are left with rifles that take a silly amount of energy to achieve what a spring rifle does just by breaking the barrel.

As for FAC versions, how many pumps for 20ft/lbs, its the same problem no?

Regards,

Oneseven

Geds modded one does 11.5 from 3 pumps so I guess A FAC one might do 20 ft lb after 10 pumps or so?

In terms of "silly amounts of energy" to get an Innova to 11.5 ft lb the input is actually very slight in my experience - or is that because I am 6' 2" and 15 stone with arms like an Orangutan?

I can get 10 pumps for 11.6 ft lb into my .177 rabbitter Innova in about 20 seconds. Then loading the Bis Mag into that tiny hole takes another 10...

There is a reason to use the Bis Mag apart from its great stopping power - it's nice and long and can't drop in backwards! I learnt that the hard way after going out with only .177 accupells in my pocket

[gedfinn 2]

Hi Ged


Go easy with that expensive Scotch!


Have you ever done a "trigger tune" on an Innova?

I have a mind to do that tonight...


Any thoughts before the 40% kicks in?

Hiya Matty, The trigger dddddOoosnnnt lenndd itts
Sorry, Twas the cheap whisky Ha ha,

The Innova trigger doesn,t lend itself to a mod, its single stage & as such , retaining the full energy of the pumps, ?
It really needs an Aluminium/Brass breech & Silencer adapter,( Plug )

The only way to make the trigger lighter is to go the full hog ( 2, Stage )
Or increase the leverage IE Longer travel,

A great gun, Let down by the plastic, ?
I am looking at making another batch of Silencer adapter ?
This is the last lot, ( All sold ) Breeches ? Well maybe !
A note to the Mods, I am not trying to sell anything here ! I haven,t even made them yet, & when I do they are all sold ?







I might add, They are a real pain to make,! ( Too many machining operations )
Having said all of that , Winter is coming & The above & a Number of other projects are pencilled in for the coming months,
Just a thaought, Ged. Hic, Ha ha,

[OLD JUD]

Hi Ged,

I've no doubt you are right that UK pump ups are emasculated. If there was a rifle that would do 12ft/lbs on two pumps then I think you're correct, it would sell well, being lightweight, recoiless and independant from bottles etc, but there isn't one and we are left with rifles that take a silly amount of energy to achieve what a spring rifle does just by breaking the barrel.

As for FAC versions, how many pumps for 20ft/lbs, its the same problem no?

Regards,

Oneseven

There isn't a current production model (Not that i know of) But a well set up SSP will produce 11+ ft/lb. I know someone who has a .22 Parker Hale Dragon that is delivering 11.8 ft/lb, Bear in mind that a lot of today's PCP's are running nearer to the 11 ft/lb mark than 12 ft/lb.
A good Titan Mohawk will give you all the sub 12 ft/lb hitting power you need, it's not too big or heavy, not as light and compact as an Innova, but few guns are.

[rasputin]

I bought my first airgun after saving a long time, I had pored over every airgun magazine i could and bought the best a Hw35E (i cant spell the makers name DOH!) walnut stock, 22inch barrel in .22 and an extra .177 barrel, a nice leather sling etc. Hated it, much to bulky and heavy. Sold it all at a loss and bought a Sharp inova. Saved a fortune in pellets as it was so accurate and it took longer to prime and load . Have full bore and rimfire now but still have a sharps which gets good use in pest control.

[OLD JUD]

I bought my first airgun after saving a long time, I had pored over every airgun magazine i could and bought the best a Hw35E (i cant spell the makers name DOH!) walnut stock, 22inch barrel in .22 and an extra .177 barrel, a nice leather sling etc. Hated it, much to bulky and heavy. Sold it all at a loss and bought a Sharp inova. Saved a fortune in pellets as it was so accurate and it took longer to prime and load . Have full bore and rimfire now but still have a sharps which gets good use in pest control.

I did the same with an HW Vixen, superbly engineered but just not for me, fully scoped up it seemed twice the weight of an Innova!
With hindsight i should have just stored the Vixen away.......

[Wryka]

I had never used a pumper before but felt as the collection was growing with PCP's, underlevers and break barrels that the pumper section was lacking.
I had a look around here and found a Benjamin 392 LE for sale and bought it. Well, different it was, for having never used one before as mentioned. At first it was nearly put straight back up for sale but as time went on I got to really like the gun and will probably be a keeper especially as it's one of 500 ever made.
As it is the LE model it does go up to beyond the 12lb legal limit after only 5 pumps and tops out at 20.2 after 14 pumps using 14.3gr Crosman Premiers - not that we get that far very often. Before people get worried that I have a over powered air gun I do have a FAC to keep Mr Policeman happy !
So to conclude - a little bit of time needed to get use to it but once over that hurdle you'll love it for being different from the main stream.

Wryka

[windygap]

I like the control of pump up guns. I have one of the mostly plastic Puma Innova (Sharp Clone) I use mostly now .the thing is beast . It easily exceeds 900fps in .177 and beyond if your arm is up to the task. It cost 125.00 US. I've been using pumps guns exclusively for 40years to hunt small game . Simple to maintain , reliable , and powerful and affordable. When I'm in the woods I want a compact , light, well balanced powerful gun I can control the power . I don't even need a scope. Low tech everytime for me. Although I admit an increased desire to own a FX Independence. We'll see. I predict it will become the Sheridan Supergrade of the future .

[Andy001]

Just been mooching on the B.A.R website and they claim the

Sheridan EB9 rifle

IS the best pump up ever!?

What do you reckon, I know there's a lot of Innova fans on here.

[edbear2]

I would have one if I won the lottery, and could employ a fit young filly to do all the hard work and hand me the gun loaded and ready to shoot......in fact I would get a "matched pair" so she didn't shirk

I have tried, and given more than one a "fair go", but no matter how smooth and how powerful etc. they are...It's too much kerffuffle to get a shot away for me personally