Advice on loading my .44 Rogers and Spencer

[parabellum]

Hi All,

I'm new to BP shooting and have a shiny new Rogers and Spencer in .44 and have a few questions:

1) What's the loading procedure that everyone uses?

2) What diameter of lead balls should I use?

3) What powder charge should I use? I have Triple 7 powder.

4) I don't want to go down the route of using grease so what wads should I buy.

5) What additional/essential equipment do I need, I have powder, powder flask and RWS percussion caps?

6) Do I need any specific cleaning kits/solutions or do I just go with removing the grips, placing it in hot soapy water and then rinse off with boiling water?

Thanks in advance of your help.

[Smokeless Coal]

2= .454 balls
3= 17 to 20 grns by volumn should be sweet. always remember to take off 17% from BP volumns
4= wads are costly so I use filler, the only lube I use is to alox coat my balls.
5= a capper is nice but not essential.
6= I dont take the grips off every time. flip the cylinder out and put it in the sink, pour boiling water down the barel and let it flow over the cylinder, nylon bristle brush round the frame, dry it and spray with WD40. nipples out of cyl quick scrub, copperslip the nipples and put then back spray whole thing with WD40 and wrap it in a cloth for storage.

1= everyone will develop their own routine here. Quick look at the nipples to see they are clear, pour in pre measured powder from phials, I do all 6 chambers (but others do one at a time) a look down to see they are all the same so theres no double charges, pour in pre measured cous-cous to all six put on ball and seat it to a tad below front face of cylinder. put it in rack till I get to firing point. On firing point gun goes on table and barrel stays pointed in direction of target, put cap on each nipple keeping fingers well back from front of cylinder, there is always a temptation to push from the front to seat a cap but its very much a no no the thing is loaded and hot at this stage so nothing must be put in the way of danger.

[tim56]

I also have a Rogers and spencer. A london grey fixed sight model. I use .451" balls home cast from old lead piping. 16grns of Swiss powder. (dont know how that equates by weight to 777.) Equal by volume is generally the rule. I use semolina as a filler and water pump grease as an over ball lube. Its cheap, its easy to use and it works. Remington number 11 caps work well with all 3 of my b/p revolvers so thats what i use. Iv had mine for nearly 10 years and it still looks great. To clean i remove the cylinder and the grips and wash out all metal parts with "HOT SOAPY WATER" the grease keeps any fouling soft so it washes away easily. After washing i rod out the barrel and cylinders with kitchen towel and dry with a hair dryer. Just lay it on a towel and leave the hair dryer pointing at it for 5 mins. Heat on the metal parts will dry it internally. I grease the cylinder pin when refitting and spray everything with wd40 before refitting the grips. Wipe it down with a clean rag and put it away. Job Done.
Personally i dont like powder flasks "potential bomb in the hand" so pre measure my powder into phials. About £15 a hundred.
Dont worry too much about exact amounts of powder. Different guns will like different amounts of powder and this amount can vary quite a bit. You will have to try variable quantities to find your own prefered load.
NEVER EVER be tempted to use nitro powders in a black powder pistol.
NEVER EVER mix powders.
Dont get down about not hitting the black every shot, took me about 2 years to hit it 9 times out of 10.
The Rogers is a smashing revolver. Enjoy it and let us know how your getting on with it.
Tim

[Smokeless Coal]

2 years to hit 9 out of 10, thats terrible Tim. My first 4 or 5 cards were 18" groups but a little consideration pulled me in to 6" now 4" on a bad day. I look upon my loads as if I was reloading .357 cartridges, get everything the same, I measure powder by vol then weigh as a second check, my filler is matched and I weigh my balls so each chamber is as close as I can get. Biggest errors are now down to cold gun then warm so second load seems my most accurate, third load things are getting dirty and group opens up. Mind you I have to admit I shoot 2 handed and rested.

But certainly for a new shooter dont be put off that theres none on the paper, it will improve and you will appreciate the science of shooting.

[tim56]

Hi Smokeless. Im shooting in the Hendon postal comps so its one hand only and no rests, slings or leaning on the bench etc. The target is a PL12 with a 51/2" black at 20 yds. (might be metres, never measured it.) 13 shots and count the best 10 so you can get away with the odd flyer. Hit an 85 this sunday so not great but getting there.
Only ever tried off a rest when i was sorting out a load and the groups where certainly a lot smaller when you remove wobbly hands from the equation. Even when shooting for fun i free stand with no aids or supports as this is how i need to shoot in my comps. Only shooting 3 this year, black powder pistol, gallery rifle and long barrel revolver. Im consistantly crap in all of em but i dont care, just enjoy the challange.
Main thing is to enjoy your shooting and keep it safe. Getting em all in the black feels good though.

[loiner1965]

i can hit the back wall 10/10 every time with my 1858 nma so you lot need to pull your socks up and keep practising

[Smokeless Coal]

Hitting the back wall, yep thats what it boils down to, as long as they are all there we should all be content. 85/130 is a respectable score Tim, I read some literature on the Colt a few days back and they considered 2 out of 6 into a 3" bull was par for these old things but I think most people I've seen can do better after very little practice. 2 or 3 loads on a range night is enough for most of us so its not like we fire off a few boxes like the ready rolled guys.

I never shoot competitions, as soon as you get down to rules that you must shoot it this way or use this powder I lose interest. My shooting is purely self improvement, I know I can shoot 10/10 bulls in 22 benchrest so I'm happy. I know my old eyes are only good for 3" group over open sights at 25m no matter what the gun so when I've cracked that I will be happy. I have done under 3" but still think that was a fluke rather than skill.
Another goal is to get off six, reload and get another 6 off before the guy in the next bay get 20 shots off with his 22 bolt action which I think I can do if I dont tell them beforehand.

[tim56]

On our 20/25 yrd range i get moaned at by one or two people for smoking the place out, Although its an open air range the firing points are covered in with firing lanes and benches so b/p smoke tends to hang around unless the doors are left open. All in jest though, if you yell who wants a go with this the moaners are first up for a go.
The shooting of b/p firearms is great fun and we all have our "ways of doing things" I Dont mind if i dont hit the bull every shot, i just love my b/p revolvers, especially my 51/2" Ruger old army. Stainless with white pearl grips and it just feels RIGHT in the hand, second is the Rogers and Spencer. Fills the hand nicely and shoots spot on, far more accurate than i will ever be. Cheap (ISH) to buy and cheap to run, especially if you home cast your balls. Great fun to shoot. What more can you ask from a sport thats just that bit different from the norm.
Tim

[john paul]

I like shooting my b/p (777) pistols, but hate cleaning the things.

Don't mention dish - washers got caught by the wife she was not impressed....

Back to the old kitchen bowl for me.

[Smokeless Coal]

I used the dishwasher just once, the flaming salt played havoc and I had rust appear before the thing had dried. One of the guys at my club has a quick brush and spray with WD40 and thats it till next time he fires it. As my RFD friend says these things are throw away guns, buy it cheap use for a few years then replace it, its gonna suffer wear and tear.

As I posted elsewhere I have 2 more coming at £15 each, to get 3 years fun what more could I ask. Unfortunatly one is a Colt and I really hate them.

[john paul]

I don't see my Remington 58 Euroarms target stainless as a throw away item, it cost me new a fair few pounds. Yes, I have replaced a few parts over the years from memory ; trigger and hand/ spring.

My little Sheriff Colt Navy 61 .36 - had shot 12 balls when I bought it from a guy from my club (he decided very quickly it wasn't his cup of tea) - £70 with x2tubs of 777, flask, spare nipples, boxed with instructions.

I like both the aforementioned and no intention of getting rid of them, if they go wrong and I can get the parts just fix them - part of the fun.

Always liked the feel of the Colts in the hand, just right, however the wedge holding the barrel is a pain..

[Smokeless Coal]

Yes JP I'm sure your nice stainless one will go on for many years. But what I mean by throwaway is like your £70 minter, use for maybe 5 years or so and it will look a bit sad. If something serious goes wrong, say the teeth on the cylinder or nipple threads then its cheaper to look for another minter to replace it than buy a new cylinder for a sad old gun.

My dislike of the Colts is that the relationship between front and rear sight is not fixed and constant. You have the removing of the barrel which does not perfectly register, if you tap the wedge a bit harder it can draw it in tighter and lock the cylinder so its never going to be perfect alignment. One of the guys at my club has an old walker and its POI varies as much as a foot between reassemblies. Then theres the hammer sight, we all know theres crud produced on firing and this can sit on the sear/hammer and give more variation

[shootist]

Just seen on the MLAGG forum a well respected member saying he uses undiluted car screen wash to good effect. A couple of others agreed with him. Sounds OK to me so I'm going to give it a go next time the pistol is out to the range.

[parabellum]

Thanks very much for the information guys, really useful as ever.

From the Heny Krank catalogue is there a specific nipple key that I need for a Rogers and Spencer?

I'm also looking to buy some wads, are the Felt Wonder Wads Lubed .45/.44 any good? Can anyone reccomend any other wad/patch?

Another question, should the lead ball be positioned just under the flush, does it matter?

Thanks in advance of your help.

[Smokeless Coal]

I think most of us have found that you get best accuracy with the ball as close as possible to the front of the cylinder. You can push it further in with no problem.

You are using 777 so something to remember is that it should not be compressed so dont use the lever too hard. Black powder likes compression but 777 just likes no air gap.