Webley Falcon barrel fault?

[ggggr]

I have heard that Webley falcons are prone to their barrels breaking near the breech block. I have a theory that if this is true, that it is not actually a barrel fault but a piston fault. Falcons, like British built Diana's and Milbro's have a crappy piston set up. where the piston wears at he point the cocking arm pushes against. As this wears more and more, it gets to a point where the gun will barely cock or not cock at all eventually. I think this is the problem---if the gun is not cocking, some chimp will use more and more force and bend the barrel down. If it gets to the point where the trigger barely engages, then the barrel can flip up.
Any other thoughts on this?

[I. J.]

Sorry. Slightly off topic.

I once saw an almost new BSA Meteor brought back into the shop with the barrel broken away at the breech block. Of course, it went straight back to the factory who replied they had had a bad batch of welding/brazing. Luckily there was no injuries.

ATB
Ian

[gedfinn 2]

I have heard that Webley falcons are prone to their barrels breaking near the breech block. I have a theory that if this is true, that it is not actually a barrel fault but a piston fault. Falcons, like British built Diana's and Milbro's have a crappy piston set up. where the piston wears at he point the cocking arm pushes against. As this wears more and more, it gets to a point where the gun will barely cock or not cock at all eventually. I think this is the problem---if the gun is not cocking, some chimp will use more and more force and bend the barrel down. If it gets to the point where the trigger barely engages, then the barrel can flip up.
Any other thoughts on this?

Hi, Its the barrels !
They must have been quenched in water after brazing in the breech block, I have had 3 ?
They also forgot to harden the piston where the cocking link fits, ! Seen & Done a number, Never seen one hardened , Ged.

[ggggr]

So guessing that it is more of a piston fault? done 5 or 6 falcons and not had a broken barrel yet but had a few worn pistons, which luckily had welded up. I also had a scorpion piston welded with electric weld (inverter?) which lasted 2 years, which I put down to the fact the gun was not sorted regarding the cocking problem ( so the long sear was rubbing on the piston whilst I was testing it) rather than the quality of the weld itself.

[gedfinn 2]

So guessing that it is more of a piston fault? done 5 or 6 falcons and not had a broken barrel yet but had a few worn pistons, which luckily had welded up. I also had a scorpion piston welded with electric weld (inverter?) which lasted 2 years, which I put down to the fact the gun was not sorted regarding the cocking problem ( so the long sear was rubbing on the piston whilst I was testing it) rather than the quality of the weld itself.

I didn,t say that !
I said it was the barrels, If a medium carbon steel is quenched after heating, It becomes brittle ( Martensitic )

To bring this back to its " Workable " state it would need stress relieving or tempering , This obviously wasn,t done, If it was a mild steel tube of the same dimensions, You wouldn,t break it,

You can pull as hard as you like on a stuck piston/buffer on a Meteor, but you break the barrel ?
I have straightened many barrels but the Bsa range ( Hammer forged are the Strongest )
Ged.

[ggggr]

I've just had a look at another Webley Falcon. This one was slow to cock/on the edge of the piston wearing to the point the gun would not cock. Now a chimpanzee would have kept pulling harder and harder on the barrel but I wanted to find out what the problem/Problems were. I have a feeling that the mainspring is the wrong one. I have not measured it but it fell a bit on the strong side. The piston washer and the fibre washer behind it were both in very good condition and I get the feeling the gun has not had much use. I decided to drill the spot welds on the ring at the back of the piston. One I had drilled them, I rotated the ring so the cocking arm would push against an unworn place and then had a go at rewelding. (I cannot weld and the welder and the rods were old and I got a bit of splatter on the rod inside the piston---grrr). Anyhow I tried the gun again and whilst the piston was moving far enough back to cock, it was still slow. I looked at the trigger and trigger block and found 2 things. The hole the piston rod goes through to engage was a bit rough, so I cleaned it up a bit. The sear was also tight so I stoned either side and the gun now cocks fine.

Re the piston, I get a feeling that Studlock could be used instead of welding. If it would hold, then I think that the ring could be rotated twice, and then reversed and used 3 times. That should give a fair few years extra use.
I dont know if it would work on other guns but I will start another thread.