old vs new targetshooting stances

[hwtyger]

I'd like to know, when did they start using UITrails and sling for the kneeling and prono positions?
Did they use other slings before that?
When did they start using the targetstance anyway instead of the huntingstance?

[tim s]

I'll try to answer for Prone. Slings have been used to steady the rifle for over a century. The American Springfield sling, as well as being a simple carrying strap, has an extra loop that turns it into a single-point sling. These were first issued in 1907. By the 1920s the two-point sling had taken hold in Britain, some say because it suited the two-piece stocked rifles (Lee-Enfields and Martinis) that dominated British rifle shooting.Two point slings continued to be the No 1 choice for most British shooters until the 1950s/60s (for smallbore) and the 1970s/80s (for fullbore). British UIT shooters have used single point slings since the 1920s at least, as UIT rules did not allow two-point slings. Some full-bore shooters still use a two-point sling (including national Champions, and members of the recent World Championship-winning team). This is partly due to a degree of conservatism in UK fullbore shooting, and also because the two-point sling is held to be steadier in strong winds (fullbore ranges have exposed firing points).

I don't think that accessory rails under the fore-end became common until the 1950s at least. Sling fittings screwed directly into the wood at first. The first handstops were screwed into metal plates. These had several threaded holes to allow some adjustment. The 1950s BSA Internationals had a screw-plate, as did contemporary Finnish Lion rifles. I think Anschutz were one of the first manufacturers to fit a rail.

[Hemmers]

On the target/hunting stance I assume you're referring to standing?

The current target stance is a lot more efficient than a hunting stance, the reason being that you're supporting the rifle for 40 or 60 shots over an hour and a half. The stance is anatomically tweaked to make maximum use of bone structure and minimum use of muscles to bear the load, and has ended up having quite a lot in common with an archery stance. In contrast, a hunting stance is more face-on to the target and is quite transferable to shotguns and clay shooting.

Ideally hunters would use the target stance - it is more stable. However, in real life, a hunter does not have time to build such a position and take the shot without his quarry running away. In addition, a hunter can "get away" with using a position more reliant on muscular strength because they are not having to maintain that position for extended periods - shoot, walk or relax, shoot, go and collect shot quarry, walk a bit more, shoot, and indeed may be using gates, fence posts, shooting sticks or a bipod to support some of those shots rather than shooting off-hand. With a few exceptions such as very dense rabbits or shooting pigeon, a hunter will not be taking 60 shots an hour (or if they do get that sort of rate, it will be in short bursts interspersed with breaks - such as game drives).

I couldn't say when the target stance became noticeably different from a hunting stance, but it's been around for many decades - probably as soon as people started shooting on prepared ranges with solid firing points and realised that under such controlled conditions the position could be improved upon. Of course all that applies to .22 and air. For 300m shooting and any fullbore standing shooting, the position must naturally be more open to the target so one can get the butt into the shoulder rather than the upper arm to better absorb the recoil.

[RobinC]

For 300m shooting and any fullbore standing shooting, the position must naturally be more open to the target so one can get the butt into the shoulder rather than the upper arm to better absorb the recoil.

The 300 mt standing stance is near enough identical to air and .22, especially as most now use a lower recoil calibre 6mm BR, only a little more care to place the butt in the shoulder rather than upper arm. Even when we shot 7.62mm in 300mts the position was still the same. I have a picture of my wife shooting 300 mt Standing in the 80's (I don't have the technology to put it up) with the same soft stance she used for air rifle. She used factory Lapua 170 gr's, mind you it was quite funny to watch as the recoil would cause her to rock back a bit and she'd have to reform her position after every shot! Still shot 90's though!
Good shooting.
Robin

[hwtyger]

Thnx for all info! Reason I ask ís, cause I have a Webley MK3 Supertarget, and wanted to know hów they shot it at the 10m discipline in the days these were made. As it obviously doesnt have an UITrail. By 2point sling you mean sling-swivel?

[DedIdick]

A 2-point sling attaches to the rifle at two points (2-swivels); similarly a single point sling attaches at only one point and a 3-point sling attaches at 3 points.

[RobinC]

Thnx for all info! Reason I ask ís, cause I have a Webley MK3 Supertarget, and wanted to know hów they shot it at the 10m discipline in the days these were made. As it obviously doesnt have an UITrail. By 2point sling you mean sling-swivel?

When the Supertarget was made, no one who was serious shot it at 10 mts! The sling would only be used prone and kneeling, and no one shot the supertarget 3p either, aprt from the fact there was also no air gun 3p done then.
The Supertarget's original home was on bell targets and the original 6 yd competitions such as those run by NARPA, which were limited to recoiling rifles.
Robin

[BigDuncs]

When the Supertarget was made, no one who was serious shot it at 10 mts! The sling would only be used prone and kneeling, and no one shot the supertarget 3p either, aprt from the fact there was also no air gun 3p done then.
The Supertarget's original home was on bell targets and the original 6 yd competitions such as those run by NARPA, which were limited to recoiling rifles.
Robin

Thanks Robin, great info as usual from you! Always wondered what the 'rationale' was for my Supertarget.

[hwtyger]

+1, that was what I wanted to know! I know the ST wasnt a 'real'targetgun, so wondered what it was 'made'for.
I like to shoot it accordingly, hency my question!
When did they start 3p shooting anyway? Or kneeling?

[RobinC]

3p with small bore and fullbore has been done for many years cetainly at least the 1920's, I'm not sure of when it became popular with air (came from Germany with youngsters) probably since Co2 and PCP's.
Its now done in England with youths using Sporter class air rifles, don't know for how long.
Robin