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Thread: Powder measurement, very confused!

  1. #1
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    Powder measurement, very confused!

    Hi all,

    I have been firing my Remington 1858 with triple 7 powder loading directly from my powder flask which has a nozzle which I believe is supposed to measure 20 grains by volume. I also have a nozzle marked 15 grains. Now I have just bought a scales for starting reloading and I decided to test it out by finding out what the charges I have been using in my bp revolver weigh. This is where my confusion lies, I have been getting 12.1-12.2 grains on my scales for my charge which is supposed to be 20 grains. Also with the 15 nozzle I'm reading a lot less. The only thing I can think of is that the volume measured is marked for black powder and that the same volume of triple 7 weighs less, however I thought that this was not supposed to be the case with triple 7 but is with other powders like pyrodex? I have tried weighing several times and the scales are giving the same consistent readings. Anyone know what's going on?

    Cheers, Mark

  2. #2
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    The same Volume of 777 will weigh less than the equivalent Volume of BP - thats why you MUST measure out 777 by Volume !

    Chart here http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

    Cheers

    Roy
    .
    WANTED Wanted - Looking for Deactivated guns - especially Machine Guns and Old Spec Sub-machine guns I'm only temp in Calgary Canada- I live in UK !!!

  3. #3
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    Think of it this way, if you were to fill your 20gr(vol) spout with fine lead shot do you think it would weigh the same as the same volume of BP? of course it wouldn't.

    All powders have a different weight per volume, this includes some BP. The chart Roy linked to shows the comparisons, its not perfect but it helps.

    The guns are not fussy about slightly higher or lower loads, but variation is not good if you are trying to improve accuracy.

    For my own loads I use the powder dispenser I use for my cartridge reloading, volmetricaly dispensed (17.5gr by vol) but then I double check and weigh each load.
    “If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokeless Coal View Post
    .
    The guns are not fussy about slightly higher or lower loads, but variation is not good if you are trying to improve accuracy.
    For my own loads I use the powder dispenser I use for my cartridge reloading, volmetricaly dispensed (17.5gr by vol) but then I double check and weigh each load.
    As Smokeless says - it is consistency that you need to work towards (having found a load that approximately suits) . and I also use a powder dispenser and I use vials .....
    I'm not as 'accurate' as Smokeless - about each 10th one gets a check - but I do give the vials a 'tap' & eyeball' that they are all the same level of powder..

    Cheers

    Roy
    .
    WANTED Wanted - Looking for Deactivated guns - especially Machine Guns and Old Spec Sub-machine guns I'm only temp in Calgary Canada- I live in UK !!!

  5. #5
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    Thanks that makes things alot clearer especially with the chart.

    If I was to weigh my charges out on the scales how many grains of 777 would you recommend for a Remington 1858 ?

  6. #6
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    You could be anywhere between 9.3 and 15.6 by weight, thats 15 to 25 by volume.

    Mine weigh in at 10.7

    Use the 777 adjusted column on the chart. And check if your range has a lower limit, my range has set 15gr vol as minimum to make sure the balls penetrate the linatex curtain, we used to get the odd bounce back.
    Last edited by Smokeless Coal; 23-01-2012 at 01:46 PM.
    “If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hakeswill View Post
    Hi all,

    I have been firing my Remington 1858 with triple 7 powder loading directly from my powder flask

    [B]DO NOT LOAD POWDER DIRECT FROM YOUR FLASK!!![B] All it will take is a little ember at the bottom of your pistol or rifle and then bang!! Good bye hand. Your flask is ineffect a granade.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by norfolk shooter View Post
    [B]DO NOT LOAD POWDER DIRECT FROM YOUR FLASK!!![B] All it will take is a little ember at the bottom of your pistol or rifle and then bang!! Good bye hand. Your flask is ineffect a granade.
    True. Though I'm not sure it has actually happened (I stand to be corrected) it is theoretically possible. The MLAGB discourage it as well. Stick to vials. You don't want to end up on YouTube I thought 777 and Pyrodex bottles had the warnings re using volumetric measurement only on the labels?

  9. #9
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    just use a powder measure. you know one with a little slider on. now i have seen one of them with about 40grns of BP go up while being loaded!!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashf9999 View Post
    True. Though I'm not sure it has actually happened (I stand to be corrected) it is theoretically possible. The MLAGB discourage it as well. Stick to vials. You don't want to end up on YouTube I thought 777 and Pyrodex bottles had the warnings re using volumetric measurement only on the labels?
    Its an American company and they tend to stick all sorts of restrictions on their products to avoid law suits.

    The dont use a flask warning is mostly relevent to single shot, fire it reload it and the risk of a glowing ember.

    That said my club demand use of vials so you can see the measures all look good, we had one guy short measured from a flask and the ball bounced back and hit another firer.

    Stick to vials, we like safe shooting.
    “If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane

  11. #11
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    I normally leave it a little while after shooting and have a good look down before reloading. If I start weighing my powder then I will be loading it through vials anyway, we dont have the risk of bounce back as the back is sand.

  12. #12
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    Enfield 1858

    A very informative post.
    I have an 1858 two band Rifle in .58 and intend to use triple 7 and or Pyrodex.
    What size and type of vial /test tube should I get......E Bay ?
    Thanks Graham
    Designer of BASC Logo

  13. #13
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    The op is also forgetting that when a finger is over the end of the flask spout, it's not flat, the skin of that finger will be inside the spout, depending how hard you press your finger on to the end of the spout, it can reduce the total by 1 grain.
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
    http://planetairgun.com/index.php

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by norfolk shooter View Post
    [B]DO NOT LOAD POWDER DIRECT FROM YOUR FLASK!!![B] All it will take is a little ember at the bottom of your pistol or rifle and then bang!! Good bye hand. Your flask is ineffect a granade.
    I know someone who was very concerned about this so in the filling cap of his cylinder flask he drilled some farly large holes in it then covered the holes with gaffer tape, the theory is that if a spark somehow got into the flask the resulting gas expansion will exit from the weakest point, that been the gaffer tape in the bottom of the flask which is now upside down and at about 45 deg to your body.
    I now make paper cases with 22 grains of black and a filler (fine semolina), this makes loading much faster and cleaner as you make them up at home.
    http://www.activeshooter.co.uk/threa....146876/page-2
    Last edited by airgunnut; 09-01-2017 at 01:01 PM.
    "Men occasionally stumble on the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened" Winston Churchill
    http://planetairgun.com/index.php

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashf9999 View Post
    True. Though I'm not sure it has actually happened (I stand to be corrected) it is theoretically possible. The MLAGB discourage it as well. Stick to vials. You don't want to end up on YouTube I thought 777 and Pyrodex bottles had the warnings re using volumetric measurement only on the labels?
    !. It has happened in the USA at reenactment displays, with severe and lethal results.

    2. The MLAGB do not discourage it, they positively prohibit it. They also prohibit the use of BP substitutes in the comps.

    3. The international federation of muzzle loading - the MLIAC - prohibit it.

    Pyrodex and all the subs should be used by volume. However, to set the volume initially, you still have to weight the charge of similar grade BP to get the equivalent volume. Having established the volume of, say, 70gr of FFg for your Enfield P53 and set it on your powder measure, you can then substitute it for the, uh, substitute. IF you weighed it, you'd see that it actually weighs less.

    tac
    Lots of guns and trains.

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