Renewal Imminent - Reccomend Me a BP Pistol (or 2)

[Buckle]

This is my first foray into the BP section so be gentle! I recently changed clubs and my new one has a few BP shooters in it - I must admit I didn't consider a BP pistol before but now I've seen a few in action I've really taken a shine to them.

Well to cut a long story short, my FAC is up for renewal now so it's a good time to request a couple of extra slots ready for a foray into / onto (?) the dark side. However I don't have a clue as to what's hot and what's not as far as BP pistols go so any advice and recommendations are welcome.

Over to you guys.

[Smokeless Coal]

Dont go for a Colt, go for a Remmington, Rogers and Spencer or a Ruger old army, preferably in stainless if you can afford it.

Just ask for one in .44 and one in .36, you can choose what you want later. You dont need to go the black powder route, you can use the alternatives which need no extra paper work or restrictions.

There are two trains of thought, those who stick to the spirit of the original and those that stick to the requirement of the FAC that is target shooting.

Muzzle loaders are not everyones cup of tea, thats why there are loads of cheap secondhand one available in mint condition and cheap. I've brought guns for £60 and even had a couple just given to me.

Every revolver is different and you need to "learn" it's little traits that make it different. They can be dead accurate and print cloverleafs or group over a foot and you have to work with them to get the best out of them.

[boyscout1982]

It does look like fun and gives one an authentic pre-ban feel of what shooting a handgun should be about. I thought long and hard about it and then one fine day at the range, had the opportunity of watching 2 blokes fuss with one for a good couple of hours resetting primer nipples and cleaning one that had not been properly maintained. Loading took about 15minutes (in experienced hands) and shooting lasted all of 5 seconds!

I decided I just didn't have the patience and perhaps I was better off putting LBRs on my variation.

Thats just me. But by all means, try it. I can see how people can get enthusiastic about it and you don't have to use blackpowder (the pain of asking for a licence for that too) you can use pyrodex!

[gtpkeeper]

could you tell me whats wrong with the colt ?

[Smokeless Coal]

A few things, to clean it you take the barrel off so the sighting is disturbed, the backsight is on the hammer so everytime you cock it the sighting is disturbed, there is no topstrap so it is generally accepted the gun is weaker, they are prone to jamming because the spent cap often falls into the hole where the hammer is. But its only my opinion, you make your own choice.

I work as a range officer and have lost count of the times I have had to sort out jammed Colts on the firing point. It often results in taking the barrel off to sort it, which is not a good feeling when the cylinder has loaded chambers.

[gtpkeeper]

was just asking ,as i am new to bp too, so what non black powder do you recomend

what about Pietta ?

[acmsarh]

Go for genuine black powder as it's cheaper than the substitutes (except swiss) and the license is free from the police, Some BP sustitutes can give you a slight delay on ignition compared to BP.

[Smokeless Coal]

For non BP, Pyrodex and triple 7 are readily available in the UK. Pyro is made from BP modified so that it is classed as a propellant rather than an explosive, my view is that it is messier than BP. 777 is a modern substitute very similar to a nitro powder and cleans with just water. Neither need the paperwork or storage box required for BP, I order mine over the phone and get it in the post next day. Yes BP is cheaper but a bottle is likely to last you six months so do you quibble at £35?

The Italian guns are all much the same, the older Pietta were considered a better build though one I have is a right dog. The Ruger is by far the best IMHO but they stopped making it.

[tim56]

Personaly i rate the Ruger old army somewhere near the top for build quality and if looked after it will out live most of us. The Rogers and spencer is also very nice and it has slightly larger grips so if youve got big hands that might be the one for you. The Remington has a slightly smaller grip but still feels good in the hand and shoots well. Iv tried the colt and didnt like it as much as the others but iv never owned one, some im sure will love theirs and it comes down to personal choice. Best would be to try a few at your new club and see which you prefer.
Dont forget that some Rugers are classed as .44 and some are classed as.45. Both fire a .457" ball and are the exactly the same calibre but if you have a slot for .44 a dealer is not going to sell you a .45. It depends what the dealer has it listed as or a private seller has it on their licence as. You could always try applying for .44/45 and include a letter explaining why.
Iv tried 777 and pyrodex and both are ok once you get a load sorted for your particular gun. Personaly i use 20 grns of TS2 b/p in both my Rugers and 16 grns of swiss fine in my Rogers but dont worry too much about powder yet, Get your gun sorted first. Once your licence is sent off you will have 12 weeks or so to worry about things such as powders, fillers/wads, over grease/lubed wads, size of caps, types of lubes etc. You will get loads of different advice in this area so its only once you have your gun you can start to search for your own load. Have fun.

[Buckle]

Thanks for all the replies chaps - all are very much appreciated. So calibres are sorted - one in .44 and one .36 - but this had got me thinking, which is dangerous I know!

Although often refferred to as cap and ball - do you have to fire ball? Are there bullets available rather than ball, and if there are, is there any advantage to using them?

Next potentially dumb question - I assume you can hold / use additional cylinders if you have them listed on your FAC. Should I be requesting an additional slot per pistol for extra cylinders? I ask as I see Kranks list cylinders in their parts manual, and they seem reasonably priced. Is it a viable option to hold extra cylinders or should I just forget that idea and stop thinking!!??

[harricook]

Thanks for all the replies chaps - all are very much appreciated. So calibres are sorted - one in .44 and one .36 - but this had got me thinking, which is dangerous I know!

Although often refferred to as cap and ball - do you have to fire ball? Are there bullets available rather than ball, and if there are, is there any advantage to using them?

Next potentially dumb question - I assume you can hold / use additional cylinders if you have them listed on your FAC. Should I be requesting an additional slot per pistol for extra cylinders? I ask as I see Kranks list cylinders in their parts manual, and they seem reasonably priced. Is it a viable option to hold extra cylinders or should I just forget that idea and stop thinking!!??

When I applied for my first two BP revolvers - shortly after the 1997 snatchback of all my pistols - I added a spare cylinder for both guns

My application was promptly knocked back

But discuss it with your FEO - maybe things have changed

I have to admit - having a spare cylinder would be no real advantage IMHO


Get yourself a decent loading stand & be able to reload the one you have 'off the gun' quicker
(Another reason for having a Remington type or Ruger Old Army)
Roy
.

[gtpkeeper]

like the idea of adding 2 flint locks too looking at kranks

[DedIdick]

Thanks for all the replies chaps - all are very much appreciated. So calibres are sorted - one in .44 and one .36 - but this had got me thinking, which is dangerous I know!

Although often refferred to as cap and ball - do you have to fire ball? Are there bullets available rather than ball, and if there are, is there any advantage to using them?

Next potentially dumb question - I assume you can hold / use additional cylinders if you have them listed on your FAC. Should I be requesting an additional slot per pistol for extra cylinders? I ask as I see Kranks list cylinders in their parts manual, and they seem reasonably priced. Is it a viable option to hold extra cylinders or should I just forget that idea and stop thinking!!??

Do you also have LBR/LBP on your application, if not why not?
With a cap & ball pistol you can fire anything you can stuff on top of the powder. Many of us use cast bullets. I actually use cast .45SWC bullets (same as I used to use in my .45acp) in a 44 Remington. Some of us feel there is an advantage to firing bullets rather than ball.

Extra cylinders are normally no issue on your ticket, I suppose now someone will come along and say their police farce doesn't believe in issueing variations for them; different farces, different rules, mine's OK. Won't cost you a penny extra when applying.

[Smokeless Coal]

You can have more cylinders, there are competitions that need them and ACPO have accepted this and say up to 6 more is acceptable. You will need to apply for cylinders though and you cant have them if they are not listed on your FAC.

My mistake ACPO are still in discussion about spare cylinders
http://www.acpo.police.uk/documents/...%2002%2011.pdf

Conical bullets can be fired no problem, though it will mean more experimenting with powder loads. I've tried them but never had any joy, but as I posed earlier every gun is different.

[Buckle]

So if I ask for 2 spare cylinders for each pistol that should be deemed a reasonable request (with any luck!). And as a pressure bearing component I won't be able to order spare cylinders by mail - they would have to be on an RFD transfer or bought face to face?

Interesting to hear some people prefer ball over bullet - I just assumed (which after all is the mother of all **** ups!) that bullets would be more accurate. Maybe this is not the case?

One more potentially dumb question - can you use .357 bullets in a .36 BP revolver? I only ask as I have .357 Winchester lever action that I will be reloading for soon and wondered if I could make use of the same bullets in the revolver? Or is there to big a difference in the calibre?

Thanks for all the help and replies so far - this thread is going to turn into an epic at this rate!!