What do you think is the most radical Air pistol design ever?

[2schimels]

Just been talking about two unsual ones on UBC. The Baikal IZH-46M and the Schimel. The Schimel is more radical in the internal design of the charging system. Clever guys the two Schimels when they thought of it.

Baz

[trevor1]

The Brown Pneumatic?

Although strictly speaking it was a CO2 gun, I was proud of the 'airpistol' I made from a 2/3rds empty lemonade bottle and a Toffo toffee. A few good shakes and the Toffo would astonish the 3rd Year boys with its power, but not its accuracy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._White's_Lemonade

http://www.aquarterof.co.uk/toffo-p-268.html

Power was about 0.6 ft/lbs, so not a toy.

[johnbaz]

I reckon the Baikal Makarov as it's very nearly a 9mm pistol too (I thing the real gun came before the airgun though )


In truth though, I love Webley overlever pistols the most


John

[elanmac]

This BSA must be a contender

[Rob M]

...At the risk of offending any Cogswell & Harrison "Certus" owners, I reckon this was definately the most inelligant air pistol ever made which to me anyway, looks like it might have been designed by Wallis & Grommit.
Brian

I don't agree, the Cogswell and Harrison pistol certainly is ugly, but to me the Westley Richards pistols are about the ugliest air pistols ever, so front-heavy and ungainly looking.

My vote goes to the Hy Score.
Spring, loading ,cocking all so different.

I agree with this though, the two designers (very clever engineers and inventors, the Lazlo Brothers) bought a bunch of famous British and German air pistols and examined them carefully, in order to come up with a design that overcomes most of the problems these other pistols had. They came up with a pistol unlike anything before, it was powerful, safe, had a trigger that was excellent by the standards of the time (the design allows the trigger to be cocked, without cocking the piston, for dry-firing practise, it operates the sear via a hammer, so it is also pretty light), some models even allowed the user to swap calibres by simply unscrewing the barrel at the muzzle and screwing another one in by hand. The pistol was carefully designed to avoid as much wear as possible, needing only an o-ring on the piston replacing once in a long while. I've got a few of these and love the design of the breech, it's surprisingly quick in operation once you get used to it, it has no seals to wear and little lost volume in the transfer port, in addition to all that, with the breech open you can literally see right down the barrel and know for sure that it's safe.

Having said that, I think that the Abas Major is also quite radical, it's a very neat, compact design although it draws on elements from may other pistols. And, back in 1922 (I think it was?) the Webley overlever pistol was also a very radical departure in airgun design, the fact that it lasted so long was proof that it embodied various different and new ideas that worked well. The Record Jumbo is also radical, in fact I think tha, along with the Record Champion, it's one of the only airguns I know of that has a piston that is not round! The pistons and seals are elliptical, how weird is that?

I like the Cometa Indian too, a quirky but fun pistol that cocks in a very unusual fashion.

[Abasmajor]

I don't agree, the Cogswell and Harrison pistol certainly is ugly, but to me the Westley Richards pistols are about the ugliest air pistols ever, so front-heavy and ungainly looking.




I agree with this though, the two designers (very clever engineers and inventors, the Lazlo Brothers) bought a bunch of famous British and German air pistols and examined them carefully, in order to come up with a design that overcomes most of the problems these other pistols had. They came up with a pistol unlike anything before, it was powerful, safe, had a trigger that was excellent by the standards of the time (the design allows the trigger to be cocked, without cocking the piston, for dry-firing practise, it operates the sear via a hammer, so it is also pretty light), some models even allowed the user to swap calibres by simply unscrewing the barrel at the muzzle and screwing another one in by hand. The pistol was carefully designed to avoid as much wear as possible, needing only an o-ring on the piston replacing once in a long while. I've got a few of these and love the design of the breech, it's surprisingly quick in operation once you get used to it, it has no seals to wear and little lost volume in the transfer port, in addition to all that, with the breech open you can literally see right down the barrel and know for sure that it's safe.

Having said that, I think that the Abas Major is also quite radical, it's a very neat, compact design although it draws on elements from may other pistols. And, back in 1922 (I think it was?) the Webley overlever pistol was also a very radical departure in airgun design, the fact that it lasted so long was proof that it embodied various different and new ideas that worked well. The Record Jumbo is also radical, in fact I think tha, along with the Record Champion, it's one of the only airguns I know of that has a piston that is not round! The pistons and seals are elliptical, how weird is that?

I like the Cometa Indian too, a quirky but fun pistol that cocks in a very unusual fashion.

Hi Rob,

As I said I didn't want to offend fans of the Certus as beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.

What offends my eye most are the clips attached to the frame which although necessary as part of the design look almost like an afterthought. I'm also not over impressed with the barrel retaining clip at the muzzle which in my opinion detracts from a clean appearance. Compare this with clean lines and efficient cocking action of the Webley and there can be no contest. But this is only my opinion and I might be a bit biased.

You are probably aware that reference sources have it that the Certus was discontinued as a result of a threat of legal action by Webley by for possible patent infringement. The original Webley patent documented provision for the action to be cocked by means of the barrel being operated as produced and in the opposite direction as with the Certus. However this was just to cover all the possibilities and was never considered as a practical solution.

Regards

Brian

[oliver13]

Hi,

I would like to second Epicyclic & his nomination of the Gat, but I would also suggest the Diana SP50 - all the technical innovation of the Gat but more poke & usefully concealable in a blazer pocket?
If you got shot by your mate somewhere tender during a breaktime battle, you knew, you really really knew ...

http://www.airgungallery.co.uk/categ...th034181nr.htm
http://www.airgungallery.co.uk/categ...i3t2mtt3wo.htm


Regards

[Atlantia]

Hi,

I would like to second Epicyclic & his nomination of the Gat, but I would also suggest the Diana SP50 - all the technical innovation of the Gat but more poke & usefully concealable in a blazer pocket?
If you got shot by your mate somewhere tender during a breaktime battle, you knew, you really really knew ...

http://www.airgungallery.co.uk/categ...th034181nr.htm
http://www.airgungallery.co.uk/categ...i3t2mtt3wo.htm


Regards

I can personally testify as to the 'wounding' ability of the SP50. A friend of mine stuck MY OWN cocked but not loaded SP50 in my back (right in the kidney) and pulled the trigger!
Frack me it hurt so bad!
Had a hell of a bruise next day.