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Thread: How many here collect deacts or obsolete caliber pistols?

  1. #1
    Jim McArthur is offline Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
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    How many here collect deacts or obsolete caliber pistols?

    And how does the law operate in this regard?

    Jim
    UBC's Police Pistol Manager
    "Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone

  2. #2
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    I don't actually collect de-acts, but I ended up with a selection of them after I decided that I could not part from some of my formerly large collection of handguns.

    I'm not too sure what the aim of your question is with regard to the law. Here in UK deactivation is carried out by authorised gun-dealers of smiths, in accordance with a very clearly laid out set of descriptive rules and instructions. That having been done, then the deactivated fiream has to be inspected at either the London or Birmingham Proof house, and stamped as a de-act The deactivation certificate provided as part of this process must thereafter accompany it if you ever dispose of it, much like a vehicle registration document, I guess. You you can buy as many of them as you feel the need for. A noted collector chum of mine in the UK Customs and Excise has a HUGE collection of military de-acts - big enough for him to put on shows all by himself with hundreds of guns of all kinds on display. All totally legal.

    A gun that is on the obsolete calibre list can be bought and sold as an object, not a live-firing firearm, in much the same way as you would buy or sell a typewriter or any other obsolete item of equipment. As with de-acts, the only limitation to the type and number of obsolete calibre firearms you may have is the depth of your pocket.

    Does that answer your question?

    If not, what actually IS your question?

    tac, trying hard to be helpish.
    Last edited by tacfoley; 06-03-2012 at 01:48 PM.

  3. #3
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    Hey Jim

    I don't 'collect' per se .... I did buy one little Belgian pinfire revolver - which I gave to my father as an 'interest' item ....... and that is the only 'obsolete' calibre I have ever bought.

    I (like Tac) kept two of my pistols when the Government here decided I was not fit to shoot them & I had them deactivated - one an 1896 Broomhandle Mauser & the other a 1917 P08 Luger

    Both would be classed as Section 5 here now

    Roy
    .
    WANTED Wanted - Looking for Deactivated guns - especially Machine Guns and Old Spec Sub-machine guns I'm only temp in Calgary Canada- I live in UK !!!

  4. #4
    Jim McArthur is offline Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacfoley View Post
    I don't actually collect de-acts, but I ended up with a selection of them after I decided that I could not part from some of my formerly large collection of handguns.

    I'm not too sure what the aim of your question is with regard to the law. Here in UK deactivation is carried out by authorised gun-dealers of smiths, in accordance with a very clearly laid out set of descriptive rules and instructions. That having been done, then the deactivated fiream has to be inspected at either the London or Birmingham Proof house, and stamped as a de-act The deactivation certificate provided as part of this process must thereafter accompany it if you ever dispose of it, much like a vehicle registration document, I guess. You you can buy as many of them as you feel the need for. A noted collector chum of mine in the UK Customs and Excise has a HUGE collection of military de-acts - big enough for him to put on shows all by himself with hundreds of guns of all kinds on display. All totally legal.

    A gun that is on the obsolete calibre list can be bought and sold as an object, not a live-firing firearm, in much the same way as you would buy or sell a typewriter or any other obsolete item of equipment. As with de-acts, the only limitation to the type and number of obsolete calibre firearms you may have is the depth of your pocket.

    Does that answer your question?

    If not, what actually IS your question?

    tac, trying hard to be helpish.
    That answers my question, Tac.

    The aim of my question is to understand what the applicable law is.


    Jim
    UBC's Police Pistol Manager
    "Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone

  5. #5
    Jim McArthur is offline Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
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    Quote Originally Posted by harricook View Post
    Hey Jim

    I don't 'collect' per se .... I did buy one little Belgian pinfire revolver - which I gave to my father as an 'interest' item ....... and that is the only 'obsolete' calibre I have ever bought.

    I (like Tac) kept two of my pistols when the Government here decided I was not fit to shoot them & I had them deactivated - one an 1896 Broomhandle Mauser & the other a 1917 P08 Luger

    Both would be classed as Section 5 here now

    Roy
    .
    Those are a pair of real classics, Roy.

    I own a couple of pinfires. They are interesting little pieces, but never struck me as being a very "sturdy" piece of kit. I'm not sure how long the pinfire era lasted, but it seems as though they never really caught on.

    Jim
    UBC's Police Pistol Manager
    "Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone

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    No help...no advice...

    Quote Originally Posted by harricook View Post
    Hey Jim

    an 1896 Broomhandle Mauser & the other a 1917 P08 Luger

    Both would be classed as Section 5 here now

    Roy
    .
    Yes, they are section 5 BUT they will both also fit into Section 7(3) and the Broomhandle is eligible for section 7(1).
    So you could have kept them. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
    Obviously no help from the NRA about how to start a collection. I bought the act and read it. Then told the NRA about section 7(3) as they had no idea what I was talking about.
    I too had two pistols deactivated, however now realise that I could have saved them - hindsight, a wonderful thing? Strange thing is...I still keep them locked up as if they were live, old habits die hard.

  7. #7
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    I only collect Obsolete calibre pieces (flintlock and early percussion mainly). The idea of owning a gun that has been butchered leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. But this is my personal opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by majex45 View Post
    Yes, they are section 5 BUT they will both also fit into Section 7(3) and the Broomhandle is eligible for section 7(1).
    So you could have kept them. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
    Obviously no help from the NRA about how to start a collection. I bought the act and read it. Then told the NRA about section 7(3) as they had no idea what I was talking about.
    I too had two pistols deactivated, however now realise that I could have saved them - hindsight, a wonderful thing? Strange thing is...I still keep them locked up as if they were live, old habits die hard.
    Hi Majex

    Yes I realise now I was being bullied into surrendering them - and deactivaing them was my way of holding onto them

    ..... and yes - they are still locked away in my pistol cabinet (caused some consternation with my FEO at renewal time who got quite snotty about them)

    The deac work was VERY well done & the guy that did the work said it was going to 'break his heart' I said "how do you think I feel - I was shooting them at the weekend )

    ...and stupidly - I could still sell them as deacs for the same if not more than I would have got if I handed them in .......

    Roy
    .
    WANTED Wanted - Looking for Deactivated guns - especially Machine Guns and Old Spec Sub-machine guns I'm only temp in Calgary Canada- I live in UK !!!

  9. #9
    Jim McArthur is offline Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
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    Quote Originally Posted by njaw View Post
    I only collect Obsolete calibre pieces (flintlock and early percussion mainly). The idea of owning a gun that has been butchered leaves a nasty taste in my mouth. But this is my personal opinion.
    I feel much the same way.

    If I lived in the UK, or if the US ever adopted UK-style pistol laws, I'd collect obsolete caliber pieces.

    But I do own a few modern cartridge pistols that I could never part with, because of sentimental reasons. As they have no historical value, those I would keep, and have deactivated.

    I'd rather have them deactivated, and still have them, than see them completely destroyed.


    Jim
    UBC's Police Pistol Manager
    "Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone

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    As I noted earlier, and in support of a fellow poster who was also ignorant of what was going on in 'ye grate scheyme of thynges' that was generally hidden from the average poor Joe handing in his much-loved guns to a bunch of gloating policemen - I had deactivated an NRA 98% condition 1918 DWM P08 - all-matching with matchig magazine - my first Luger. And a similar condition byf42 Mauser-made P08 - all-matching except for magazine - both with their holsters. Also my dad's, later my 1939 Walther PP in 9mmK as issued to the Vienna police special branch in 1939, in its serial-numbered matching holster. Others, just waaay too valuable to even contemplate handing in, were disposed of in another safe country, where I shoot them whenever I feel like. There were a few others, seven in fact, that I just could not bear to see go, but they were not precious old historical artefacts, just guns I'd loved for many years and won literally hundreds of awards with.

    At no time was there ANY mention whatsoever that some of these guns might have been saved by the use of a different form of licensing - it seems that if you were not in the know already [wink-wink] then you had dipped out forever, as we obviously did. As did many others of my acquaintance, too. Not until later on, around 2000, were many of us made aware of the facts of the matter, and the 'seems that you didn't do your homework, old boy' cuts no ice with me.

    To tell the truth, I'm STILL confused as to how you acquire a collection without having a licence to do so beforehand, or having got the licence to acquire, you begin a collection based on your long-standing interest in historical firearms that you now wish to collect, starting with one gun. Surely a collection comprises a number, usually many, guns. What constitutes a collection anyhow? Seems very chicken and egg to me.

    Please don't try and explain it again.

    tac

  11. #11
    Jim McArthur is offline Frock coat wearing, riverboat dwelling, southern gent
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    I won't try to explain it, Tac, because I don't understand it!

    Jim
    UBC's Police Pistol Manager
    "Nasty, noisy things, revolvers, Count. Better stick to air-guns." Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure of the Mazarin Stone

  12. #12
    davederrick is offline With our thoughts, we make the world
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    A guy in my club has a few sect 7 guns stored in Bisley, he gave a talk to the club about them. I asked him exactly that, how to get a licence and start a collection. You can start a collection with just 1 firearm IIRC.
    "I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Lets start with typewriters." - Frank Lloyd Wright (1867-1959)

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    Quote Originally Posted by davederrick View Post
    A guy in my club has a few sect 7 guns stored in Bisley, he gave a talk to the club about them. I asked him exactly that, how to get a licence and start a collection. You can start a collection with just 1 firearm IIRC.
    So all he could actually do is talk about them? Couldn't show them to you, allow you to handle them? That's pretty sad, IMO.

    Still doesn't explain how you have a collection of just one gun, or how you acquire it without having the licence to acquire it.

    What comes first?

    ME: I want to begin to collect Swiss military handguns from 1880 up to WW1.

    FEO: You need to demonstrate that you are a collector of the relevant handguns that are of some historical or cultural interest.

    ME: I don't yet have ANYTHING at all, where do I start?

    FEO: You need to demonstrate that you........

    See where I'm at?

    tac

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    for yours is easy tac, you want one to add to your already existing collection of scandinavian rifles.

    FEO: You need to demonstrate that you are a collector of the relevant handguns that are of some historical or cultural interest. should read FEO: So you want to add to your collection of scadinavian firearms, what do you already have?

    ME: I have several rifles from that era and wish to add the pistols which match.

    FEO: no problem.


    One can easily be had. The collection may be nothing to do with firearms, perhaps a famous person is what the collection is based on. You may have other artifacts, for instance uniform paperwork etc of maybe a relative who was a renowned officer or a wild west notorious figure so may want to add their weapon to your collection.

    The whole scheme is not to make it possible for everyone to have a pistol, its not aimed at shooters but at collectors and the preservation on important pieces of history.
    “If a cricketer, for instance, suddenly decided to go into a school and batter a lot of people to death with a cricket bat, which he could do very easily, I mean, are you going to ban cricket bats?” :- Prince Philip said after Dunblane

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    Thank you for that, it really makes it a whole LOT clearer!

    All but two of the firearms that interest me - one from Switzerland and one from Sweden - are already on the obsolete calibre list, and readily available - for looking at - albeit it at a considerable price.

    This needs some thinking about...

    tac

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